2 outside 2 in car

This is a discussion on 2 outside 2 in car within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This happened to a friend of mine not too long ago. He was unarmed (he was 17 at the time) You are walking home at ...

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Thread: 2 outside 2 in car

  1. #1
    Member Array bal_g23's Avatar
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    2 outside 2 in car

    This happened to a friend of mine not too long ago. He was unarmed (he was 17 at the time)

    You are walking home at night when you notice a car driving slowly by. All of a sudden, it stops and two guys get out. They are average sized college kids. One has a small knife and the other has a tire iron in hand. They demand your wallet and any other valuables. They are 10ft away and not coming closer. Their weapons remain down, as they arent expecting any resistance. They are easy targets, but there are still the two in the car that is right next to you. The two are sitting in the backseats and you cant see their hands. They may or may not be armed with something a little more powerful than a tire iron. What do you do?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    I'd toss my mugger's wallet (a little billfold with a few fake credit cards and $10 in small bills I almost always carry. If that wasn't available, I'd use my real wallet - it's worth less than life is) on the ground behind them and begin "getting off the X" - moving away from the threat and finding cover.

    If they pick up the mugger's wallet and leave, they live to see another day. If they're after more than my money, then "it's go time".

    If that's the case, I'll be doing my best to get to cover as quickly as possible, and then begin eliminating threats - I won't speculate on which one first or how, as the situation would undoubtedly develop rapidly. Those with ranged weapons would take priority. Hopefully after the first one dropped, the rest would suddenly remember some urgent business they must attend to elsewhere.

    Bottom line - I'd try to give them what they want and hope that's enough to satisfy them. If they want more than material goods, it's showtime.

    Just my opinion.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    If I don't have a weapon I comply and give them my wallet by throwing it behind them and running like a "track star" in the opposite direction.

    I always carry a weapon or three, so that's a moot point. Tire Iron is a Deadly Instrument, Knife is a Deadly Weapon. In this scenario they are only going to be expecting me to move to my pocket once, that's to retrieve my wallet. They may think they are getting a wallet, but will soon learn that they are about to receive something else.

    I'm not an advocate of shooting when it can be avoided, but in this scenario I don't see how to avoid it. The only time that I can see, when they are expecting me to move, is when I reach for my wallet. Therefore I need to take advantage of that opportunity and draw one of my weapons. The odds of me getting another chance to draw is slim to none.

    As far as the ones in the car, I take cover ASAP, even while dealing with the two Armed Individuals outside the car. This serves to get me off the X and get thee butt to cover. That cover may be behind the car, which is really just concealment and not cover. If the car drives off, so be it, I let it go. If the Darwin Award winners get out of the car, or attempt to, I respond appropriately. If the car tries to back over me, I'm already prepared and half way expecting that.

    It's sad, but sometime there is no avoiding having to shoot.

    Biker

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    In this scenario they are only going to be expecting me to move to my pocket once, that's to retrieve my wallet. ... The only time that I can see, when they are expecting me to move, is when I reach for my wallet. Therefore I need to take advantage of that opportunity and draw one of my weapons. The odds of me getting another chance to draw is slim to none.
    Biker
    You have a valid point there. My hope would be that they would turn to retrieve the thrown wallet, but the odds of both doing so are probably slim.
    I'm not sure how well a judge would like you for going straight to lethal force, though.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
    - Margaret Mead


    "Booger Hook Off the Bang Switch" - unknown

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Zaria View Post
    You have a valid point there. My hope would be that they would turn to retrieve the thrown wallet, but the odds of both doing so are probably slim.
    I'm not sure how well a judge would like you for going straight to lethal force, though.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    Like I said in my post, they are armed with a Deadly Weapon and a Deadly Instrument. I am only responding appropriately to them placing me in fear of my life and having the means and abilty to use those weapons to end my life.

    Some problems can be talked out, others can be worked on and some require drastic measures. The criminal actors in the OP started the dance and are forcing me to dance with them.

    Biker

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Forget the dummy wallet, holler "Back off" (or words to that effect ) while moving away (toward cover if possible). If they make the slightest move to follow, shoot them both until they no longer present a threat. If the other two get out of the car and advance, it should be obvious that they want to play too...
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    bang bang..bang bang...bang...bang...next

    tire iron, knive -vs- 1911....two on one...looks like a good shoot
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    If I were attacked by multiple attackers threatening the imminent use of deadly force, I think that my inclination would be to immediately respond with the force necessary to negate that attack.......

    A 17 year old would have a much harder time though since, in most states, he wouldn't be eligible to legally carry a concealed weapon.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array raysheen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    If I were attacked by multiple attackers threatening the imminent use of deadly force, I think that my inclination would be to immediately respond with the force necessary to negate that attack.......
    I'm with David on this one. This is a clear cut case of self defense. I would reach back for my wallet, and bring out a gun. From that point it would be up to them if they want to get shot or not. (and I suppose, depending on the situation, that I may even shoot) While I drew I would be removing myself and my family from the situation...if they advanced then, again, it would be their bad decision.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    If I don't have a weapon I comply and give them my wallet by throwing it behind them and running like a "track star" in the opposite direction.

    I always carry a weapon or three, so that's a moot point. Tire Iron is a Deadly Instrument, Knife is a Deadly Weapon. In this scenario they are only going to be expecting me to move to my pocket once, that's to retrieve my wallet. They may think they are getting a wallet, but will soon learn that they are about to receive something else.

    I'm not an advocate of shooting when it can be avoided, but in this scenario I don't see how to avoid it. The only time that I can see, when they are expecting me to move, is when I reach for my wallet. Therefore I need to take advantage of that opportunity and draw one of my weapons. The odds of me getting another chance to draw is slim to none.

    As far as the ones in the car, I take cover ASAP, even while dealing with the two Armed Individuals outside the car. This serves to get me off the X and get thee butt to cover. That cover may be behind the car, which is really just concealment and not cover. If the car drives off, so be it, I let it go. If the Darwin Award winners get out of the car, or attempt to, I respond appropriately. If the car tries to back over me, I'm already prepared and half way expecting that.

    It's sad, but sometime there is no avoiding having to shoot.

    Biker
    Yep! Exactly what Biker said.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    It’s kind of one of those times, when the first to draw wins. The two in the car may or may not be armed, but while sitting in the car, they are of less threat.

    Like many others have said, I’d reach for my pocket, or hip depending on what time of year it is, and come out with something they where not expecting.

    If they where closer than 10 feet, I’d pitch the wallet trick, then come out with my pistol.

    If they complied with on the ground, cross legs, hands behind your head. They would live to be “rehabilitated” in our states fine penal institutes.

    Sure, it would be hard to control four would be THUGS, so you may have to shoot one of two that does not comply to get the point across.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I would not give up my wallet. Period. Ever. It has my social security card, my debit cards, my military ID, my CHL, and my D.L.

    I will protect my wallet, as it is, in effect, my life.

    If I was unarmed, I would probably point behind them, yell "5.0" and take off running. If they give chase I would look for a weapon of opportunity.

    If I was armed, which is much more likely than being unarmed, I would reach behind me, and draw. If they take off running, they get to avoid being shot. If they stand there and look stupid, they get shot. If they advance, they get shot.

    Don't want to get shot? Then don't try to take Kerbouchard's wallet.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  14. #13
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    He said they demanded his wallet. I suggested he tell them to come and take it rather than give it willingly. The theory applies.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Don't want to get shot? Then don't try to take Kerbouchard's wallet.

    I'm with him.
    Glock 27
    BENELLI NOVA

  16. #15
    Member Array NKMG19's Avatar
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    I would yell out loud "Back Off" while simultaneously creating distance between myself and the perps. If they advance towards me I draw and shoot. If they dont follow me then its over. Shooting someone who tries to rob you with a weapon is justified period.
    NRA Member

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