Home Invasion... Excessive Force???? - Page 2

Home Invasion... Excessive Force????

This is a discussion on Home Invasion... Excessive Force???? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't believe anything in a home invasion scenario which you describe is excessive, except maybe throwing the BG's onto a fire pit before the ...

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Thread: Home Invasion... Excessive Force????

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I don't believe anything in a home invasion scenario which you describe is excessive, except maybe throwing the BG's onto a fire pit before the authorities have a chance to get to the scene after being called.

    You break into my home with bad intentions there is nothing I won't consider to stop you. To hell with the DA, this is small town Texas, I doubt there would be anything that would be considered excessive.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I see that you believe the downward angle will keep bullets from hitting the neighbours ,if that round strikes concrete or rock it will ricochet with enough force to penetrate into another residence,you can defend you're life but one of you're bullets kills an innocent bystander and you will probably be charged.I would stick with shotgun and 00 buck followed up by handguns if they get that close,In that type of situation you're more l;ikely to hit them with a shotgun than spraying bullets out of an ak,If you want lots of bullets without worrying too much about over penetration use a 10/22 with a 30 or 50 round mag, or a GSG 5 MP5 clone in 22 LR with a 22 round mag
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  3. #18
    Ex Member Array HK91's Avatar
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    I say no.

    Here is why . . . you are accountable for each round that you fire. A rifle is easier to shoot accurately than a pistol. With a 30 plus rd magazine you will be able to command the entire downstairs until police arrive. A second magazine will be all you would need.

    My question is what steps have you put in place to provide you enough warning to:
    1. Roll out of bed
    2. Orient yourself
    3. Locate and ready the weapon for defense
    4. Account for others in your home
    5. Take command of the upstairs and stairwell?

    This about this. The 1st warning that you will have is the door bursting open. Do you noisemakers on the doors?

  4. #19
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    The only thing 'excessive' is how much I'll have to spend to replace the shells I'm going to throw at 5 home invaders...

    Stay armed...stay safe!
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  5. #20
    Member Array VegasSIG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I see that you believe the downward angle will keep bullets from hitting the neighbours ,if that round strikes concrete or rock it will ricochet with enough force to penetrate into another residence,you can defend you're life but one of you're bullets kills an innocent bystander and you will probably be charged.I would stick with shotgun and 00 buck followed up by handguns if they get that close,In that type of situation you're more l;ikely to hit them with a shotgun than spraying bullets out of an ak,If you want lots of bullets without worrying too much about over penetration use a 10/22 with a 30 or 50 round mag, or a GSG 5 MP5 clone in 22 LR with a 22 round mag

    A GSG-5 are you kidding me? And a ricochet going through dry wall, stuco and concrete block? I cant belive you said .22lr. Should I wait 10 mins. so they can bleed out before calling 911?

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSIG View Post
    A GSG-5 are you kidding me? And a ricochet going through dry wall, stuco and concrete block? I cant belive you said .22lr. Should I wait 10 mins. so they can bleed out before calling 911?
    I don't recall the individual saying what his walls were made of,but an ak round will slice through2 1/2" sheets of drywall,1 3/8" sheet of chipboard,and stucco like butter,In all actuality an AR15 platform is a high powered 22 calibre rifle,I can put 6 or 8 rounds of 22 in com before you could get more than 1 shot out of an AK accurately,would I use it for home defense,nope thats what the 12 ga with 00 buck is for if they get too close i'll use my 1911 45,as a last resort I'll break out my AR15 problem is it's only 22 and was designed to do more wounding than killing
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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  7. #22
    Member Array mrlee7878's Avatar
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    As someone trained to disable boat engines with aerial precision fire using a barrett m107, excessive is all relative to what the task is at hand.
    Given that you somehow already know you are about to encounter 5 intruders attempting to get into your home, I would go for the most effective tool for that size of job. Especially given that if 5 guys are entering your home, one can reasonably assume that with that much intent they are all reasonably armed. In cases such as this you not only want to be effective, but extremely intimidating with your firepower as well.

    It's your home, your family. I say leave nothing to chance when it comes to the lives of your family.

    Stay safe & cautious.
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  8. #23
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    Again this is one of those cases in which the hands of the homeowner are tied to the local state laws and we get different answers from different individuals. 5 intruders in the wee hours of the night v. homeowner w/ an AK? I will personally take up the AK since there is nothing in Florida Law preventing me from using enough gun to defend my family.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Sorry, but in the context of the scenario, I don't understand the use of the word excessive.

    There simply ain't no such thang......!

    BTW, remember, the convex side goes towards the enemy.........

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Here in Texas that would only come into question if I ventilated my neighbors property (or my neighbor) while engaging the BG's. Unless I actually hit one of my neighbors I would expect more problems from my home owners association than from the courts.
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  11. #26
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    I would like to hear the questioning at the trial.

    Prosecutor: Sir, you used an (evil, black) AK-47 to gun down the home invader. You emptied an entire 40 round clip. (Ya, I know. I just want him to look stupid.) Don't you think that was excessive?

    You: Refresh my memory. How many thugs forced their way into my house?

    Prosecutor: Um, er, five.

    You: Were they armed?

    Prosecutor: Um, er, yes.

    You: So I am upstairs, at 2 am, with my wife who is dialing 911, my 2 year old little girl and my 4 year old son screaming in their mothers arms and these guys storm into my house trying to kill me, rape my wife and my kids are going to witness this. What would you have suggested?
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  12. #27
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
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    +1 to that emp.

    A home invasion can't be subdivided into threat levels. No such thing as non violent vs violent intent for an intruder IMO. Most of the time at night, 1 if not both of my vehicles are parked in the driveway. If someone breaks into my house, and clearly ignores the fact that someone is home, they aren't there for my TV or laptop. Someone breaks into my house, its GO TIME, no quarter, period. Excessive does not exist, only the level of force to end the threat.

    As far as what weapon to use, use what you have. I personally would not use an AR or AK for over penetration. While not wanting to hit a neighbor, more importantly I don't want to hit my wife or kids. You never know which way the threat will be coming from, or if you will get turned around in a fight. I am not going to count on the fact that I will always be facing away from my loved ones. Rifle rounds will go through interior walls much too easily.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSIG View Post
    Lately there have been alot of home invasions, and seems like the trend is only going up. One of the last ones I read about was FIVE invaders.

    Here is my question for you fellas/ladies. If your home were invaded, and you were able to post up at the top of your staircase in a defensive position while significant other handles 911. Would using an AK47 type weapon with a 40 round magazine be considered excessive?

    Considering you would be at the top of the stairs I would think the angle of fire would definitely reduce the likely hood of a round going anywhere
    but toward the BG's and the ground. Reducing the risk of injuring innocents.

    Excessive force in this situation is when you start giving downed intruders a pair of "security rounds" after the shooting is over, but before calling 911.

    Of course, if after they are all down you reload, check your family, change your soiled underware and briefly pray before calling 911 for medical aid...well...

  14. #29
    Member Array DrSal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK91 View Post
    I say no.

    Here is why . . . you are accountable for each round that you fire. A rifle is easier to shoot accurately than a pistol. With a 30 plus rd magazine you will be able to command the entire downstairs until police arrive. A second magazine will be all you would need.

    My question is what steps have you put in place to provide you enough warning to:
    1. Roll out of bed
    2. Orient yourself
    3. Locate and ready the weapon for defense
    4. Account for others in your home
    5. Take command of the upstairs and stairwell?

    This about this. The 1st warning that you will have is the door bursting open. Do you noisemakers on the doors?
    In my particular circumstance the first warning will be an alarm going off in my bedroom from the motion detectors lighting up the house perimeter/driveway/ and backyard, followed by the vicious barking of my guard dogs; if the doors/windows/ burst in: ALOT of 7.62 rounds will be going out!

  15. #30
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    I'd rather post at the top of the stairs with a 8 shot pump shotgun loaded with OOB. I'd resort to the AK if I emptied the pump and anything was still moving.(Not likely).I'd be a bit leery about over-penetration with the AK and hurting the neighbors.

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