2 men at door - asking whether I had kids..

This is a discussion on 2 men at door - asking whether I had kids.. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know this outfit, or at least one with that M.O. They sell Bible encyclopedias, or they sell collegiate "study guides", or something like that, ...

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Thread: 2 men at door - asking whether I had kids..

  1. #16
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    I know this outfit, or at least one with that M.O.

    They sell Bible encyclopedias, or they sell collegiate "study guides", or something like that, depending on the market.

    They recruit suckers from college and maybe high school, and they operate like a cultish traveling sweatshop. They are notorious for not getting proper licensing (so sales people get arrested) and one way or another they leave these kids screwed over, and owing the company money.

    My uncle got mixed up with this outfit.
    They tried recruiting me when I was in school.
    CREEPY VIBE.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagor2k View Post
    I carry a G27 w M-Tac holster - almost can forget its there. I am new to Glocks but love this G27 - but must admit I have been carrying without a round chambered until I got more comfortable with its safety features. I was instantly regretting the whole scenario.

    I was within arms reach of this guy, outside my door, G27 handy but 'safely' unchambered (aka useless), delayed adrenaline kicking in. I finally figured out they were selling books and were hunting for houses with kids. I gave a not so Minnesota nice 'NOT interested' and 'why would I tell you who has kids in the neighborhood?'. Guy sarcastically responds 'oh - thats real nice..' and turns, walks to car with his buddy and leaves.
    Firstly, please load your weapon as soon as you know why it's the best choice. Hopefully that is now.

    Selling books? YEAH, RIGHT. Clipboard schmipboard. More likely they are mapping the neighborhood to find people who have no self-preservation instincts. Your reaction to their play-acting gives them more useful information than the words you answer with. For instance, do you allow strangers into your personal space (arms length). Do you spew sensitive information in response to inappropriate questions (identifies you as a mindless sheep). Et cetera.

    I think you did ok, but if I ask you now "Which houses in your neighborhood have children?", you oughta tell me "None of your blank business, jerk!", and I'm just some guy a thousand miles away on the other end of the internet. How much more should you rebuke the creep on your own porch? If they had good intentions they would have apologized instead of responding sarcastically.

    Why don't you call and make a police report? It can't hurt to get it on the record. Mention it to the neighbors, too.

    Every time I answer the door, I regret it. Anyone who I would want to talk to already has my phone number. Door-to-door salesmen should be a thing of the past.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    That entire scenario has bad vibes all over it, the one good thing is you now realize that you may want to rethink you carry mode.
    "Eternity is Too Long to be Wrong"

    Texas CHL Instructor & Holder & Utah CFP Instructor
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I had a guy who was on the property and said he worked for KG&E.... and asked him his name, for an ID, and I would call and verify it with them.....

    He took off running. Police said, this guy had been doing this and scoping out houses, people, etc. and coming back and burglarizing them later... and they hadn't caught him yet. Some people, had actually let him into their house.

    About 2 weeks later I came home at a time I normally was not there.... burglary in progress. He went out the back door, while I came in the front.... chase was on.
    Couldn't catch him, called police... and they did.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    This concerns me to no end. My Wife is the naive type to step on the porch and talk to them; and we live 1 city over from all the front door shootings dukalmighty was talking about (providing he was talking about the ones in Frisco).

    We have taught the kids to not answer the door, but my Wife will answer it and open the storm door too. Since we Homeschool I could one day easily loose my whole World.

    I think you did OK, especially now that you will have 1 in the chamber.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    This concerns me to no end. My Wife is the naive type to step on the porch and talk to them; and we live 1 city over from all the front door shootings dukalmighty was talking about (providing he was talking about the ones in Frisco).

    We have taught the kids to not answer the door, but my Wife will answer it and open the storm door too. Since we Homeschool I could one day easily loose my whole World.

    I think you did OK, especially now that you will have 1 in the chamber.
    Yes those were the ones and you really need to break you're wife of that habit,I lock my doors when i'm home but notice almost everybody else doesn't when I point out how easy it is for somebody to burst in and over power them,I get the that kinda stuff only happens to other people look,and I tell them those other people thought just like them before it happened
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #22
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Traveling salesman accused of rape in California; from same company as those charged with murder in Albuquerque : Local : Albuquerque Tribune

    Traveling salesman accused of rape in California; from same company as those charged with murder in Albuquerque

    By Caleb Fort
    Friday, January 4, 2008


    Less than two weeks after two traveling magazine salesmen were charged with murdering a Northeast Heights couple, a man from the same company was arrested in California on rape charges.

    Claremont, Calif., police say they charged Corey Finley with the Dec. 19 rape of a 22-year-old woman who admitted him into her house during a sales call. He is being held in lieu of $2 million bond.

    Finley, 21, was employed by Integrity PGM, or Integrity Program, the same Nevada magazine sales company that sent Travis Rowley and Michael Lee to Albuquerque, said Detective Aaron Fate of the Claremont Police Department.

    Albuquerque police say Rowley, 23, and Lee, 21, beat to death 79-year-old Tak Yi, and raped and beat to death his wife, Pung Yi, 69, in their home on Dec. 4. The two men had been dropped off in the Yis' neighborhood to sell magazine subscriptions.

    In Claremont, Finley talked his way into a woman's home and then raped her, according to a Claremont Police Department news release.

    "Things like this don't usually happen here," Fate said of Claremont, a college town of about 36,000, populated by students, business people and retirees. "It's normally quiet."

    Integrity Program has not returned phone calls or e-mails from The Tribune.

    Albuquerque and Claremont are considering new laws to discourage traveling sellers from coming knocking.

    A proposed ordinance that will go before the Albuquerque City Council on Monday would establish a no-knock list for door-to-door sellers similar to the national no-call list for telemarketers.

    It would also require soliciting companies to submit applications for permits along with information about the company and sworn statements that all the sellers had passed background checks.

    Claremont police will meet with the city attorney next to discuss adopting similar laws, said Capt. Gary Jenkins.

    That city has a law that prohibits any soliciting, but such ordinances were declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court, he said.

    Instead, the city uses local tax laws to kick solicitors out of town, Jenkins said.

    Albuquerque has also filed a lawsuit against Integrity Program, seeking punitive damages and a restraining order that would prohibit them from operating in the city.

    Fate said Claremont has not discussed a lawsuit, but it might consider it once the criminal case against Finley has been concluded.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Even our home security company has this mindset. When we bought this house I asked about glass break sensors or those real nifty screens with the lead wires threaded through out them and he said, you really don't need those "you live in McKinney". At the time I bought it, but then we had that family get killed over drugs, the Realtor carved up in the show house and then all of these front door shootings.

    A little off topic, I know, but not really. It goes to show you it can happen anywhere if it can happen here surrounded by neighborhoods with $500k houses and up (not mine of course).
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    An Asian and Middle Eastern man..... that kinda reminds me of Harold and Kumar, but they sell books for weed money LOL!
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

  11. #25
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    If you feel more comfortable carrying with no chambered round then "so be it" but, as soon as you noticed two unknowns coming onto your property with no obvious legitimate reason for being on your property...that would have been a good and appropiate time to chamber a round while you were still inside.

    Even if you were not planning to go outside at least you would have been ready for a possible home invasion if they decided to crash your front door in.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    When I first moved here, I had two guys come up to my door that knew everything about my two young daughters, My wife and I freaked! I asked what are you some kind of pedophiles? As my wife was grabbing the shot gun, I never saw two guys run so fast.
    Later we found out they were a couple of Mormon missionaries.
    We became the joke of the neighborhood "Don't go to their house, unless you want to get shot" Works for me
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    PatrioticRick, I love the avatar

    back on topic...
    Unless I recognize the person outside my door (friend, member of the apartment complex staff, etc.) I don't typically open the door w/o asking them who they are. If I do open it, I have a weapon in my hand but concealed from their view (behind the door, behind my leg, etc.).

    as for the state of readiness of your weapon, when we're talking about self-defense, there is nothing safe about an empty chamber.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  14. #28
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    There was a time I answered my door. I had neighbors who would drop by. I was armed though. The gypsies would hit our neighborhood around April/May. The game was send a couple adults with a kid to the front door. Usually one if not both adults were female. As soon as you open the door the kid darts inside and tears off not to be caught easily. The adults come in and start stealing while you are busy with the kid and other adult.

    In my county you need a permit from the sheriff's office to do door to door soliciting. Most don't get it, so those were short conversations. However, there was the one guy who decided he needed to open my storm door. Since I had my loaded Para .45 in my hand, it came to bear on his head quickly, and he remembered he had somewhere else to be, yesterday. I called the SO on him, but nothing came of it.

    Someone asking me who had kids would get photographed and I would be on the phone with 911 right there.

    Not sure why you carry your Glock unloaded, but I would consider carrying it loaded or find a gun you are comfortable carrying loaded. Door answering distance is way to close to have an unloaded gun. That's hands on distance. On the rare occasion I would answer the door, it's with a loaded gun in hand.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  15. #29
    Member Array dagor2k's Avatar
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    Discussed the scenario at length last night with wife and daughter. This was the second time we've had a sale guy show up in 10 yrs (first guy was selling frozen meat and wanted to see my freezer to see if I had room- unbelievable). It doesn't happen often, but nevertheless the updated policy regarding strangers at the door: door doesn't open, they provide ID and purpose for being there, and unless they are the publishers clearing house with that big check they will be instructed to leave the property. No sales excuse or 'my car broke down can I use the phone' will work.

    stanislaskasava - points well taken. My reaction to their play-acting was not immediately firm and I put myself at risk by standing there like a sheep. I am naturally affable/friendly and being instantly ready to confront isn't automatic. But 'friendly' isn't going to help protect my family. I replayed the scenario and gave myself a D. At least I didn't buy any books, but if I had gotten stabbed, I could only hope my wife would have gotten to her revolver in time to protect herself and the kids.

    TravisABQ - That news account is chilling - the predators can obviously come looking like innocent/average people - the kind a person might let into the house

    Thank you for your advice all - G27 is racked and ready to go.
    Allen

    G27, Beretta 8040, Ruger GP100

  16. #30
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    You should have asked them...............(with a wild eyed look in your eyes....)


    Hey, are you guy's the carpet cleaners????? I've got blood all over the place & I hope you can get it out before my wife comes home!!!
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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