This is a discussion on My Walmart Adventure within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by packin45 Oh geez.....yet another story of a permit holder playing cop. Since none of you other guys will put this in it's ...
Too bad he got away. I'm sick of these snatch and grab losers. Hopefully the cops will run his plates and snag the low-life. I doubt it, though. Too many speeding ticket quotas to fill.
Good to know that there are still citizens among us willing to attempt to stop a crime, when they witness one.
packin45 says it perfectly. This situation could have gone very bad for you. I'll expand on packin45's scenario a little bit. What if the guy come out of his beater with a bat or even a knife or a gun? Remember he just broke into a car while others could see him. He must be nuts. So you shoot. What you just did now is kill a purse snatcher. There's no hero in that scenario.
You did a great thing to the point of getting information to report him. You got involved and that is rare anymore. You took it too far in my opinion though. And even if I could agree you did almost everything right, I would still have to say when you lost the BG temporarily, GAME OVER.
I'm glad things worked out as they did.
Please critique the scenario and feel free to state what you would or would not have done.
Let's not make it personal.
It happened the way it happened.
The guy can't undo any of it or rewrite his past...so help others learn from it with intelligent and polite, constructive comments.
That should not be too difficult of a task to accomplish with a bit of respectful forethought before you type your comment.
It's an actual scenario as the event transpired.
Please Educate...don't Humiliate...we are all on the same side of the fence here.
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Next item to research on carry ammo-------what are the best rounds to penetrate a vehicle windshield and still have an effect on their intended target.After I got out of the way I ran in front of the car. This time I had my shirt up over my XD. I had one hand on a now obvious pistol and the other hand making a stop gesture. He didn't. He damn near killed me.
IWBA Handgun Ammunition Specification Package
Glad it worked out OK for you. I think I would get on the phone myself, but who knows? If I was having one of those days maybe I would chase him. Tactically I am curious how close you were to the conversion van when you lost sight of him. Did you cut it close or did you stand off a bit and "slice the pie"?
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So few will get involved with anything - even if someone if getting raped/attacked in broad daylight - I admire your sense of justice.. but.. in the big scheme of things, they could be stealing hefty bags of money AND plasma TV's from Walmart and I would not physically intervene. I would be on the phone with police and keep safe.
OMG - if you had gotten run over or end up losing your house in court later on.. It is easier for us to analyze after the fact tho.. the adrenaline rush really kicks in on something like that in the heat of the moment. Glad you are ok.
G27, Beretta 8040, Ruger GP100
Looks like I was acting within the law.
Sec. 3. Section 13-411, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:
13-411. Justification; use of force in crime prevention; applicability
A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304, manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904, or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.
B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using PHYSICAL FORCE OR deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.
C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if he THE PERSON is acting to prevent the commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section.
D. THIS SECTION IS NOT LIMITED TO THE USE OR THREATENED USE OF PHYSICAL OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE IN A PERSON'S HOME, RESIDENCE, PLACE OF BUSINESS, LAND THE PERSON OWNS OR LEASES, CONVEYANCE OF ANY KIND, OR ANY OTHER PLACE IN THIS STATE WHERE A PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO BE.
That wasn't a burglary. Burglary is entering an occupied structure or a structure that would be reasonable to believe is occupied.
"Just blame Sixto"
If I thought I would ever, in a life-or-death situation, have to shoot someone through a windshield or car door, I would be carrying a Glock 31 (.357 Sig). But, as a permit holder, all I need to be concerned with is the safety of my family and myself, not stopping and apprehending a felon who's fleeing the scene. So, for my needs, Federal 9mm Hi-Shok 115 gr +p+, or .45 230 gr +p, would work extremely well, without the high risk of overpenetration you get with the .357.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...
If you haven't tried it yet, I suggest shooting some IDPA matches, which IMO is a fairly close simulation of a real-world shooting scenario. I have always been pretty humble about my shooting ability, but IDPA has been a real eye opener for me just the same. Just last Sunday, I shot a match in which I got penalized for three hits to non-threat targets (bystanders), and I know I had at least a few clean misses. Even the very best shooters wing good guys and miss occasionally.
It gives you tremendous perspective when you carry, because you know that your gun doesn't make you invincible; you know that, if it ever goes down, you're going to fumble your draw, you're going to fumble with your weapon and your reload, you're going to lose count of the rounds you've fired, you have a good chance of missing or hitting a bystander.
I would have a really hard time intervening in any situation involving a stranger, not because I don't care about other people, but because it'd be so easy to make a mistake in judgement. Regardless, someone would have to be in imminent danger of death or GBH for me to produce my weapon.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...
It's kinda funny how what you think you'll do and what you actually do are two different things when the situation goes down.
My plan would be to NOT attempt to apprehend the BG.
But I have a very strong sense of justice and am too damn confrontational for my own good!
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
I have to agree with Packin45's original reply. You witnessed somebody jimmy a car door and steal a purse. So you decide to be a hero (which is very commendable, God bless you for it) and chase the guy down. There are so many what-ifs that could have led to a much sadder scenario. What if the BG had a gun, and decided to turn and use it on you. Action is faster than reaction, and by the time you could have drawn you would have had a clip emptied into you. What if the BG had purposefully tried to run you over, accomplishing the same thing as shooting you? How would your family feel about losing you over a purse? I have a wife and daughter. I would never put myself in a position to be taken from them. Why would I let myself get killed over a purse?
And what if he pulled a weapon and you shot first? How would you explain that to a jury, that you killed a BG, possibly with kids of his own, over a purse? How would you explain that you chased him down, threatened him with a gun, forcing him to draw his own weapon to defend himself. How would a jury see that? They would see it as an overzealous vigilante that ended up killing a father of 4 over a purse with $3. in it.
While I commend you for trying to better the world in which we live, I think what you did was incredibly irresponsible. What you should have done is gotten a description and called the police. And if he got away - so what. Nobody got hurt and Granny can afford to replace anything in the purse anyways. Car insurance would probably cover it, and seeiang as how it was a caddy, she probably has money enough to cover anything she lost.
I wouldn't of chased him, but if I saw someone breaking into a car, I might do the "HEY WHAT ARE YOU DOIN OVER THERE?" yell from a safe distance to scare him off.
Good advice is to tell the person who the purse belongs to not to leave purses in cars anymore.