June 1st, 2008 10:11 AM
Then you would have let the guy know where your wife was. what if he had a gun and decided to toss a few rounds your way to shut you up. I don't THINK I would have chased the guy...but...
You did fine. No one was hurt...you got info for the cops...and you were prepared If the situation would have gone further south.
You can play the what if game all day...but...results count.
Too bad he didn't drop the purse and run off...
"If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."
June 1st, 2008 07:29 PM
You probably would have been. No life or death situation.
I wanted to ask him if I did draw down on the guy If I would have been arrested but forgot to ask.
June 1st, 2008 07:44 PM
At least you tried to right a wrong...
and you acted.
right,wrong,none of the above, at least you had to balls to try...
That right there is more than most people would have done.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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June 1st, 2008 11:02 PM
We can "what if" this til next year, and nothing changes. You did what you did, you made a choice based on who you are, as for me, I would probably done the same thing with or with-out CCW. I just make a pee poor by-stander when people need help.
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
June 1st, 2008 11:29 PM
the threat of deadly force was made after the BG attempted to run the OP down. Upon the second attempt, the OP was 100% justified in using deadly force. What everyone is missing here is that there are 2 separate scenarios. The purse snatch only illicited a chase. The purpose of the chase was, or should have been, to relay the BG's whereabouts to the police. One the BG acquired a deadly weapon and attempted to murder the potential witness to his crime, lethal force becomes justified.
IANAL and this is OMO. Makes sense to me tho
June 1st, 2008 11:52 PM
Ya know I just gotta jump in here. This will not be popular I know with the LEO's on this board but I gotta say, at what point do we as citizens have to wait for crime to stop, or at least start taking a major decline.
A crime has or is occuring, dont we as civilized citizens have a responsibility to do something. I know, I know. I know all the arguments about its not our job nor our responsibility to play cop, and the courts will fry us as well. But at what point do we as citizens take our community back. When it only effects us personally.
Now dont get me wrong, I am no hero. But commit a crime in front of me and I got a .45 strapped to my side. I will take that chance and pray right is on my side, and the community. Police for the most part, "not always", are pretty much gonna take a report and pass it on up the chain for processing. When do we get involved as our grandfathers did and make this a better place. Unless martial law is declared I just dont see any other way. Where is the nobilty and sense of justice of the American citizen if not here and now. I did not fight for this country to have it given away to criminals or politicians. I say shoot out the tires, tie-wrap his hands behind his back and call a cop to take the report. Take back our community. I for one am just tired of this nonsense and invasion of the community by the criminal elements.
This being said from someone in the heart of Sin City USA. Ok , my rant is over I can take a deep breath and relax now. I am just tired of all the foul ups in our criminal justice system and allowing criminals and illegals back on the street.
Honor, Courage, Virtue. These are what makes a man.
"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945
June 2nd, 2008 01:24 AM
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
June 2nd, 2008 09:02 AM
Read the scenario again;
Originally Posted by mcp1810
June 2nd, 2008 10:06 AM
jarhead45, you nailed it. We have allowed ourselves to become restricted by our own laws. As I stated in another post, we have slowly let the wolves in to the flock. I don't think most of our government has done this on purpose, but it has happened.
I know if my Grandfather saw this when he was alive it would have stopped right there in the parking lot, period.
I agree that those who have served and fought for this country didn't do it so that the scum can rule by fear, those who have died for this country didn't do it so that we can live in fear of being wronged bu so we can live and grow. WWGWD (What Would George Washington Do)? I have a feleing he would have run after the guy and drug him out of his carriage and whipped the mess out of him.
packerfanXD, I think you did good. You saw evil in action and you took action. You should get an honorary Wal-Mart vest for that and at least a years worth of nachos. All kidding aside, good job in reacting, for both you and your well prepared Wife. It appears that you two know how its done.
"Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt
June 2nd, 2008 10:28 AM
Maybe...maybe not. The crime has already been committed but now you're giving chase. Your life is not threatened at this point but you will be viewed as an aggressor. Witnesses have seen it and they have it on videotape. You're trying to detain him against his will as he's leaving, going for your weapon but not drawing it. He's now acting in self defense as he tries to run you over. Either way, it's going to cost you a 55 gallon barrel of $100 bills to prove your the good guy and that's if you're lucky. Afterall it is only a purse snatching and the jury might not see your actions as being "necessary", sad to say. There's always the possibility of a civil suit now that you've caused both the perp and accomplice emotional distress. I know it's not right...it doesn't have to be, it's the law.
Originally Posted by TacticalCompact
Worse yet, you pull your gun and another CCW holder just sees this part transpire and pulls his gun, possibly shooting you thinking they're stopping a felony. I know that part is a little far fetched but this is the place of inaugural walks afterall.
Kudo's for stepping up to the plate but I feel it would have been better following the guy while on the phone with 911 giving a description of him, his vehicle and anybody else with him. It could have been very dangerous losing him around the van. That's a good way of getting knifed or shot. A person committing a crime doesn't want to get caught and will do whatever possible to see that doesn't happen. This was evident in his trying to run you over.
I agree that we need to take back our communities from these types but we also need to be aware of how our actions will cast a stereotype for all CCW holders, good or bad. If we see a crime taking place, we need to report it and do what we can to see this person is caught. As CCW holders, we also need to be well versed in our state laws and know when it's appropriate to pull our weapons when your life isn't threatened with serious bodily harm or death. It's these "questionable" times that it can get to be rather expensive. Unless you're a millionaire, it's not cheap being a crimefighter. Choose your battles wisely.
June 2nd, 2008 10:49 AM
June 2nd, 2008 11:04 AM
There have been too many incidents like this where 'good intentions' ended up in misery for the would-be good samaritans. You've heard all the stories about bad guys getting injured during their commission of a crime and then turning the tables on the victim.
Our court system is ridiculous sometimes and bends over backwards to make sure the criminals get the benefit of the doubt. Criminal defense lawyers protect these scumbags and good citizens get punished. We live in a time where it's not really the BG's fault that he went on a shooting spree..., he only did so because he had a "bad childhood" and he is actually a victim!.
Too many well-intentioned citizens have been punished for trying to help someone and now our society has become a "hear no evil, see no evil, do nothing" type society. Everyones too afraid they are going to get sued or imprisoned for trying to help someone. The criminals have gotten the upper-hand.
June 2nd, 2008 11:56 AM
Again not being a lawyer I don't know what Arizona defines as a "manipulation key". But the O.P. did say he saw the guy "jimmy the door". Does a slim jim count as a "manipulation key"? if so our friend could be ok. If it refers to a specific device I am not familiar with, then you are right and that section (as I understand it) would not apply.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
June 2nd, 2008 01:17 PM
No, you guys are missing the point. The OP said he thought he saw someone "jimmy the door", and he thought he saw someone steal something from a car. He also thought he saw the BG in a car that was backing out of a parking spot, not long after losing sight of him during a foot chase, but apparently wasn't 100% sure of that, either.
Originally Posted by mcp1810
So, you have a permit holder, apparently without any police training or even advanced firearms training, willing to endanger his own life, the lives of the people in the car that was fleeing the scene (who may or may not have been involved in whatever it was the OP and his wife thought they saw), and the lives of any bystanders who may have been hit by stray rounds, or by the car as it flees the scene, when he escalated the situation by presenting a firearm. I'm sorry, but I just can't see how this was heroic. This kind of situation isn't a video game or movie; when you fire and miss in a crowded area, somebody is probably going to catch that bullet.
I would never draw my gun unless I was protecting myself or my family, or I was reasonably sure that someone would die if I didn't, and that's it. As armed civilians, that's all our guns are for (or in certain states, defending property).
Also, this is the kind of thing that the antis always bring up when they're pushing their agendas, and you're playing right into their hands.
I'm a permit holder, yes, but I will never agree with these kinds of situations. Sooner or later, one of you guys out there playing cop is going to get someone killed, or end up in jail at the least.
Sorry if I come across as overly harsh, but every time I read one of these threads, it makes me wonder what I would do if one of my family members were the one who took the stray round.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...
June 2nd, 2008 01:24 PM
Actually, your argument is the kind of thing that they anti's always bring up when they are pushing their agendas. You're playing right into their hands.
Originally Posted by packin45
"Sooner or later one of you guys out there with guns playing cop are going to get someone killed. You have no right to carry a gun when you might accidently fire a stray bullet. I shudder to think if it was my family member that got hit by a stray bullet when you started firing in a public place."
It's the exact same argument. And the reason it is so effective is because people on our side sanction not getting involved, and 'letting the police handle it.'
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