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My Walmart Adventure

7K views 85 replies 47 participants last post by  papanewguinea 
#1 ·
Hope this belongs here.

My wife and I just got back from Walmart. As we were looking for a spot, my wife, who is much more situationally aware than I am, saw some scumbag that she thought was breaking into a Caddy but she wasn't sure. I pulled into the next aisle and parked just across for him.
At this point I see him jimmy the door and reach inside, grab a purse and start walking off looking around. As he walks off I jump out and start running after him. My wife tells witnesses to call 911. I am right on this guy and I know that I'll catch him within 30-40 strides. He rounds a conversion van and when i got up to it I lost him temporarily. Then I see a beater back out two parking spaces next to me.
I run in back of it (stupid), slap the trunk with my hands and yelled for him to stop. He didn't. He nearly ran me over backing up. After I got out of the way I ran in front of the car. This time I had my shirt up over my XD. I had one hand on a now obvious pistol and the other hand making a stop gesture. He didn't. He damn near killed me. I also noticed that he had a female passenger as well. I was able to get a decent description and license plate which I passed on to the cops.
The owners finally come out of WallyWorld and we tell them what happened. They were very thankful that I tried to get the guy. The cops were cool too. I told the officer that I had CWP and that I wanted to draw down but didn't. He said of course that I did the right thing. I wanted to ask him if I did draw down on the guy If I would have been arrested but forgot to ask.
I'll tell ya, I was running as fast as I have in some time. If that guy kept running, I would've ground him into the parking lot.
 
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#34 ·
We can "what if" this til next year, and nothing changes. You did what you did, you made a choice based on who you are, as for me, I would probably done the same thing with or with-out CCW. I just make a pee poor by-stander when people need help.


Z
 
#35 ·
the threat of deadly force was made after the BG attempted to run the OP down. Upon the second attempt, the OP was 100% justified in using deadly force. What everyone is missing here is that there are 2 separate scenarios. The purse snatch only illicited a chase. The purpose of the chase was, or should have been, to relay the BG's whereabouts to the police. One the BG acquired a deadly weapon and attempted to murder the potential witness to his crime, lethal force becomes justified.

IANAL and this is OMO. Makes sense to me tho
 
#40 ·
Maybe...maybe not. The crime has already been committed but now you're giving chase. Your life is not threatened at this point but you will be viewed as an aggressor. Witnesses have seen it and they have it on videotape. You're trying to detain him against his will as he's leaving, going for your weapon but not drawing it. He's now acting in self defense as he tries to run you over. Either way, it's going to cost you a 55 gallon barrel of $100 bills to prove your the good guy and that's if you're lucky. Afterall it is only a purse snatching and the jury might not see your actions as being "necessary", sad to say. There's always the possibility of a civil suit now that you've caused both the perp and accomplice emotional distress. I know it's not right...it doesn't have to be, it's the law.

Worse yet, you pull your gun and another CCW holder just sees this part transpire and pulls his gun, possibly shooting you thinking they're stopping a felony. I know that part is a little far fetched but this is the place of inaugural walks afterall.

Kudo's for stepping up to the plate but I feel it would have been better following the guy while on the phone with 911 giving a description of him, his vehicle and anybody else with him. It could have been very dangerous losing him around the van. That's a good way of getting knifed or shot. A person committing a crime doesn't want to get caught and will do whatever possible to see that doesn't happen. This was evident in his trying to run you over.

I agree that we need to take back our communities from these types but we also need to be aware of how our actions will cast a stereotype for all CCW holders, good or bad. If we see a crime taking place, we need to report it and do what we can to see this person is caught. As CCW holders, we also need to be well versed in our state laws and know when it's appropriate to pull our weapons when your life isn't threatened with serious bodily harm or death. It's these "questionable" times that it can get to be rather expensive. Unless you're a millionaire, it's not cheap being a crimefighter. Choose your battles wisely.
 
#36 ·
Ya know I just gotta jump in here. This will not be popular I know with the LEO's on this board but I gotta say, at what point do we as citizens have to wait for crime to stop, or at least start taking a major decline.
A crime has or is occuring, dont we as civilized citizens have a responsibility to do something. I know, I know. I know all the arguments about its not our job nor our responsibility to play cop, and the courts will fry us as well. But at what point do we as citizens take our community back. When it only effects us personally.
Now dont get me wrong, I am no hero. But commit a crime in front of me and I got a .45 strapped to my side. I will take that chance and pray right is on my side, and the community. Police for the most part, "not always", are pretty much gonna take a report and pass it on up the chain for processing. When do we get involved as our grandfathers did and make this a better place. Unless martial law is declared I just dont see any other way. Where is the nobilty and sense of justice of the American citizen if not here and now. I did not fight for this country to have it given away to criminals or politicians. I say shoot out the tires, tie-wrap his hands behind his back and call a cop to take the report. Take back our community. I for one am just tired of this nonsense and invasion of the community by the criminal elements.
This being said from someone in the heart of Sin City USA. Ok , my rant is over I can take a deep breath and relax now. I am just tired of all the foul ups in our criminal justice system and allowing criminals and illegals back on the street.
 
#39 ·
jarhead45, you nailed it. We have allowed ourselves to become restricted by our own laws. As I stated in another post, we have slowly let the wolves in to the flock. I don't think most of our government has done this on purpose, but it has happened.

I know if my Grandfather saw this when he was alive it would have stopped right there in the parking lot, period.

I agree that those who have served and fought for this country didn't do it so that the scum can rule by fear, those who have died for this country didn't do it so that we can live in fear of being wronged bu so we can live and grow. WWGWD (What Would George Washington Do)? I have a feleing he would have run after the guy and drug him out of his carriage and whipped the mess out of him.

packerfanXD, I think you did good. You saw evil in action and you took action. You should get an honorary Wal-Mart vest for that :blink: and at least a years worth of nachos. All kidding aside, good job in reacting, for both you and your well prepared Wife. It appears that you two know how its done.
 
#42 ·
There have been too many incidents like this where 'good intentions' ended up in misery for the would-be good samaritans. You've heard all the stories about bad guys getting injured during their commission of a crime and then turning the tables on the victim.

Our court system is ridiculous sometimes and bends over backwards to make sure the criminals get the benefit of the doubt. Criminal defense lawyers protect these scumbags and good citizens get punished. We live in a time where it's not really the BG's fault that he went on a shooting spree..., he only did so because he had a "bad childhood" and he is actually a victim!.

Too many well-intentioned citizens have been punished for trying to help someone and now our society has become a "hear no evil, see no evil, do nothing" type society. Everyones too afraid they are going to get sued or imprisoned for trying to help someone. The criminals have gotten the upper-hand.

jp
 
#54 ·
The media whores played the VT shooter as a "victim" and it sickens me to this day... same thing they also did for the milk man turned mass murderer, they tried to paint him in as a "victim" though he had KY Jelly to molest the little girls with, what will become of our sociaty several decades from now if it's this pathetic already? :aargh4:
 
#48 ·
I have to agree with packin45. There is a line. Its a purse folks...the OP stated twice that he almost got killed from being run over. Is someone's purse worth that? I'm trying to imagine that I was in the situation only i did get run over and killed.....and a police officer telling my wife, son, and daughter that their husband and father died going after a stolen purse. I'm all for standing up for whats right, but that is not how I would honor my family. The purse was stolen from an empty car, not from an attack on the owner, and no one was in peril at the time the crime was committed. Nor was the OP and his wife absolutely sure of what was happening.

I totally agree that crime is out of control and we as citizens should have the authority to stand up for ourselves and our community. But chasing people down throwing all caution to the wind trying to APPREHEND a criminal, gun or no, is extremely dangerous. What was the criminal expected to do once the gun was displayed? Stop and get out of the car...submit?? Heck no, that would mean getting caught; any criminal will try to do something to avoid being caught, and in this case, run you over.
 
#49 ·
PackerfanXD did a good thing with putting his testicles on the line. Granted I would have broke contact once I lost sight of the perp unless I knew exactly what he looked like. But let me quote to summerize --

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

and by no means would I ever be accused of being a bible thumper, just ask my mom but I will also attempt a quote --

When good men do nothing, they get nothing good done. To be good, one must do good. The Lord commands his people to do good (Luke 6:35; Eph. 2:10).
Christ "gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works" (Titus 2:14).


I will always remember that line - "I will be judged by my works" ,,, nuff said on that lest I be accused of being religious, mom would truly laugh at that one and granny would roll in her grave laughing at me for attempting to quote bible verse.
 
#53 ·
I'm just playing with ya mcp on the key thing, I don't know for sure about the definition either... but I just like playing defense attorney sometimes. :wink:

The thing I have to point out is, whether it was a burglary, theft or whatever, does it constitute deadly force? Burglary from a dwelling and from a vehicle are to very different things, and a jury will take that into account no matter the state.
 
#55 ·
I hear ya Sixto:smile: One of the things about this forum is that we have people from all walks of life and from all over the world. As I have mentioned in other threads, here in Texas I can do something and get a pat onthe back from the Sheriff and a "Good Citizen" award from the local chamber of commerce that back in Maryland would have had me locked up for twenty years.
State laws on use of force are written by people that they will be directly effecting. They could easily find themselves on either side of the situation. They also get a lot more play in the local media than something like LEOSA would. It seems to me they are a much better barometer of what we could expect from a jury in that state. All a defense attorney would have to do is seat one juror that would understand the laws as I see them and there is no conviction. Down in this part of the country I don't think that would be too hard to do.

I don't get too deep into the moral questions on some of these things. My big question is were the actions described in the post within the law? I figure most laws are based on prevailing community standards, so if I don't live in that community, my opinion on how right or wrong the law is is a moot point. I have a problem with a particular law, I can support those in that community that are trying to change it, or stay out of the area under its influence.
 
#57 ·
Jonesy 26,
If you read the section quoted in post #23 of this thread, Arizona law (13-411 as quoted) does provide for the use of deadly force to protect property. No where in that section does it say there is a requirement for that force to be in self defense.
The section is titled "13-411. Justification; use of force in crime prevention; applicability"
In A. it specifically lists burglary in the first or second degree which are property crimes.
In B. it states there is no duty to retreat.
In C. It says there is a presumption that the person is acting reasonably if acting to prevent any of the offenses listed in A.
In D. It states that this section is not limited to the persons home, residence, place of business, land the person owns or leases, conveyence of any kind, or any other place in this state where the person has a right to be.

So D allows someone to threaten or use physical or deadly force to prevent second or first degree burglary at properties that are not their own.
If the BG smashed the window of the car and grabbed the purse this section would not apply, because it would not meet the standard of the third degree burglary. I could be wrong but if they consider a slim jim type device to be a "manipulation key" that is a third degree burglary. If they consider that two foot long metal blade with a hook at the end a "dangerous instrument", or if the BG is found to be carrying a pocket knife or any other kind of weapon, it is a first degree burglary. And going back to 13-411 what is required is that the person in question "reasonably believes" that they are acting to prevent one of the listed crimes. This law (as I see it) does not give a green light to shoot every guy with a slim jim. It has those magic words "if and to the extent".
If you yell at the guy and he drops the bag and runs, his theft is over and he gets to go on his merry way. As I see it if he is still in the parking lot and still has the bag in his posession this is still an in progress event until he either is caught and secured or makes good his escape.
 
#60 ·
So D allows someone to threaten or use physical or deadly force to prevent second or first degree burglary at properties that are not their own.
If the BG smashed the window of the car and grabbed the purse this section would not apply, because it would not meet the standard of the third degree burglary. I could be wrong but if they consider a slim jim type device to be a "manipulation key" that is a third degree burglary.
OK i went back and read that section, and I see where you are coming from. In my opinion though, the margin could be awful narrow in how the law would be interpreted and applied to this situation. If it wasn't 1st or 2nd degree burglary(for whatever reason), our brother in arms might have been up pook creek to quote another poster.

I've been following this thread closely and there are 2 areas of contention among the masses with threads like this: 1. We all want to "do the right thing", but how much should we get involved? and 2. Will we be on the side of the law when we do act? It comes down to individual judgement.

Those things are always disputed when one of us writes in that we had to act in a given situation or god forbid draw our weapon. At the end of the day, even if we don't agree on each others' actions, the good news is things generally turn out well, and everyone is OK.

Good discussion.:bier:
 
#58 ·
You are still missing the point, all of you. Nowhere here was deadly force justified to stop the theft of the purse. I think it is highly debatable whether the OP should have given chase at all. Sure, he was doing what was RIGHT. However, just like the other thread where the guy at the grocery store chased the robbers and they shot an innocent, the grocery store is being sued bigtime by the deceased man's estate.

That is one part of the argument. I agree that the smart thing to do was hope to be a good witness without giving chase.

Where you all are getting tied up, however, is after that part. The threat of deadly force was justified once the BG tried to run the OP over, assuming the man in the car was truly the BG. I think he was. If not, then the OP would be up poo creek, but lets just assume it was.

Sure, there could be question about whether giving chase was wise, but you guys are all incinuating that lethal force would have been used (it was not) to stop a simple purse-snatching. I believe you are mistaken, and have to separate the two different crimes. The first being the "burglary" itself, the second being the attempted murder upon the OP by the BG with his car (deadly weapon for sure).

You need to untie this in order to succesfully analyze it.
 
#63 ·
Well yes and no. Under MN law, the OP would have been crucified for even drawing down on the person in the car, much less shooting the guy. Not to mention the fact that we're again straying toward the playing cop with a carry permit scenario, because the only thing that really put the OP at risk of death or GBH was his attempt to try to physically stop the suspect vehicle and detain it's driver. Now, it's got to take a lot less time to jump out of the way of a slow moving car than it does to draw, aim, and fire on it's driver; going for his gun actually put the OP at a much greater risk than just stepping aside and letting the car continue on it's merry way.

I can guarantee you that if I were the driver of the car in question, the dude standing in front of my car with a gun pointed at me is definately getting hit, and hard. I'm not risking any parting shots through the back window if I swerve around him.....especially if my family is with me.
 
#59 ·
He chased him and got the plate numbers. I'd say that's a job well done.

The fact is that he DIDN'T draw his weapon, so obviously even with the adrenaline pumping he knew what was the correct action.
 
#68 · (Edited)
forgive my ignorance but

what is a OP , BG , QB ???

i would have called 911, gave a description of the thug and circled the parking lot to see what car he got into and got the plate number. but that's me. you did what you thought was right. all we (and you) can do now is learn from this...

edit...

OP = Original Poster

BG = Bad Guy

QB = Quarterback
 
#70 ·
I believe that Texas does have a charge of Burglary of an Automobile, maybe some Texas attorney will correct me on that one.. One particular POS is on probation for that particular offense after stealing my wifes purse from our van in our driveway about 4 years ago. She had just carried our son inside and went back out to get the purse, and got the guys license plate while calling him some not so nice things as ran to his car. I did visit his house, and speak to his mother recommending that she visit the local police station, which she did. Sorry to say the detective was none too thrilled that I visited their home, but since it was in another state there ain't much he could do about it.

Anyway to my real point. I am glad that the OP came out of this one ok. I don't fault you for doing anything you did, other than possibly showing your weapon. If all we are going to do is call the Leo's every time we see someone commit a crime then we deserve what we get when society goes to hell in a handbag. No he isn't a Leo, but there is nowhere that I know of that says a Leo is the only one that is authorized to stop a crime in progress. Also I haven't read anywhere that says once you get your CHL, CCW, whatever you want to call it you have to act like you don't have a set, assuming you have one to start with. I read too many times on here that after we get our permits we have to act differently, why? If you were out of line before I got my permit I would call you on it, I ain't changing just cause I have a permit in my pocket or a pistol on my hip.

I hope the Leo's get the guy, and he actually gets something on his record for it. Maybe one less POS out there to make honest peoples lives misserable.
 
#71 ·
I read too many times on here that after we get our permits we have to act differently, why? If you were out of line before I got my permit I would call you on it, I ain't changing just cause I have a permit in my pocket or a pistol on my hip.
The "why" is because if you are packing and get involved in a fray, you have just introduced a weapon into the situation. Before, if you weren't packing and got involved in a fight, it was just a fight. With the weapon on board, now you have complex responsibilities and issues you didn't have when not carrying a firearm. This is Chess, not Checkers and requires a great deal of maturity and forethought on the part of the person carrying the firearm.
 
#72 ·
You have only introduced a weapon if you actually pull the weapon out. Before you got your permit, did you carry a pocket knife. If so, everytime you got in some type of confrontation did you go for your knife? I hope not. Yes, life is a game of chess, but just because you have a permit, doesn't mean the only piece you can move is your queen. I still have all my other pieces also, and like the queen, the pistol only gets used as a last resort. That doesn't mean I am going to let someone else take all my other pieces, ie roll over and stop living the way I always have, until I am left with only the choice of pulling my gun.
 
#74 ·
You have only introduced a weapon if you actually pull the weapon out.
Not true, you introduce the weapon as soon as you become actively involved as a CCW holder and carrier of a handgun. Because YOU brought the weapon, now there IS a weapon in the confrontation where there was none before. This is the Chess and Maturity part... ya gotta think things through.

It is like the police officer that attempts an arrest of an unarmed, but violent and resisting offender. As soon as the officer becomes active in the arrest process, now there is a weapon present where there wasn't one before. Maybe the officer has absolutely no intention of drawing his weapon because there is no reason for deadly force. However, he must be conscious of the fact that he is wearing a handgun and he must act to protect that handgun. There was an old statistic that stated about 20% of police are killed with their own weapon. The handgun was snatched out of the officer’s holster, or, wrestled away from them somehow and then turned on the officer with murderous results. Offenders have admitted they had no intention of harming the officer, UNTIL AFTER the fight began and escalated. Once things reach a certain plateau then the offender took the gun that was available to them, the officers, and then used it on that officer.

Carrying a handgun means there IS a weapon with you, and, that weapon must be considered in how you behave and all your actions. If you choose to jump into every little fray you run across, then know this, every little fray you run across will have at least one weapon involvement. It is a thinkers game... :smile:
 
#77 ·
Not true, you introduce the weapon as soon as you become actively involved as a CCW holder and carrier of a handgun. Because YOU brought the weapon, now there IS a weapon in the confrontation where there was none before. This is the Chess and Maturity part... ya gotta think things through.

You are assuming the other person doesn't have a weapon. I assume that anyone I meet does have a weapon. I hope your assumptions don't leave you on the short end of the stick one day. Your also assuming that other have not though about different scenarios, you are wrong on that point. Maybe, just maybe, others either think differently or have a different set of standards than you do.

It is like the police officer that attempts an arrest of an unarmed, but violent and resisting offender. As soon as the officer becomes active in the arrest process, now there is a weapon present where there wasn't one before. Maybe the officer has absolutely no intention of drawing his weapon because there is no reason for deadly force. However, he must be conscious of the fact that he is wearing a handgun and he must act to protect that handgun. There was an old statistic that stated about 20% of police are killed with their own weapon. The handgun was snatched out of the officer’s holster, or, wrestled away from them somehow and then turned on the officer with murderous results. Offenders have admitted they had no intention of harming the officer, UNTIL AFTER the fight began and escalated. Once things reach a certain plateau then the offender took the gun that was available to them, the officers, and then used it on that officer.

No this scenario is nothing like the officer trying to arrest an unarmed but violet offender. I don't know that the OP said he was trying to arrest the guy who broke into the car. It is a given that the officer does have a weapon, the BG always knows that. For those of us that carry concealed, the only time that somone should know about the weapon is when we present it. If you go back and read my original post on this, I stated that I didn't think it was a good thing for him to pull his shirt up to expose the weapon.

Carrying a handgun means there IS a weapon with you, and, that weapon must be considered in how you behave and all your actions. If you choose to jump into every little fray you run across, then know this, every little fray you run across will have at least one weapon involvement. It is a thinkers game... :smile:

I don't think anyone on this forum thinks they should jump in on every little fray. I have been on this forum for a couple of years now, and have yet to see that in any serious post. Yes when we get involved there will be at least one weapon on one person, that doesn't mean that the weapon is involved in the scenario. Although to steal someone elses signature line, the best weapon is your brain, so in that sense there will be at least two weapons in each scenario, but probably not evenly matched. :wave:

There are those on here that will not simply stand by and let some things under certain circumstances go without trying to intervene. That level is different for different people. There is not a single right answer for each scenario. What is right for me isn't always right for you. We each have to live with our own choices.
 
#76 ·
Maybe I have just missed other threads or got lucky and not tripped over them...

- OR -

My fellow site members are getting touchy, cranky, irritable, and down right :banned:

We have a member who related 30 seconds of his day and the events that transpired from second 1 and the decisions that he made.

None of us are perfect, and will make the right decision every time in any situation.

Popular opinion - Call the police, give a description of the suspect, go on with your life. That will get filed with the stuff to do on a really slow day.

OP choice IMO correct to a point, follow and get more intel. Better description, vehicle, ect.

Lost sight of perp, sees car backing out and steps behind it;
I run in back of it (stupid), slap the trunk with my hands and yelled for him to stop. He didn't.
OK, any honest citizen backing out of a space and someone yells STOP while hitting the trunk, they are going to stop "What did I just about run over, a person, a kid... The OP got the right car, dicey move on his part but the right car regardless of losing sight of the suspect.

OK now what? The ante just got upped. Do that to a cop, plainclothes or uniform, and that is vehicular assault/attempted vehicular homicide. Do the Police hesitate to draw and fire? Yes, I know we are not police, does that mean that the classification of a deadly weapon and crime committed changes?

The snowball effect has started rolling, and the OP and the suspect are committed to it's end pending the choices they make with every heartbeat. No time to analyze and think it through, just act & react. OODA loop I think it is called.

And here a great many of you are, picking apart every second of his actions.

The OP is not a cop, was not playing cop, he was doing what he thought was the right thing to do at the time.

Personally, I would have more concern over someone stealing my wallet than my car. I know you have all heard of identity theft, and a purse/wallet is chock full of all a body needs to completely RUIN a persons life in short order, let alone a quick home robbery while the victim is at Wally World WAITING for the police to show up to make a report.
 
#81 ·
Maybe I have just missed other threads or got lucky and not tripped over them...

- OR -

My fellow site members are getting touchy, cranky, irritable, and down right :banned:

We have a member who related 30 seconds of his day and the events that transpired from second 1 and the decisions that he made.

None of us are perfect, and will make the right decision every time in any situation.

Popular opinion - Call the police, give a description of the suspect, go on with your life. That will get filed with the stuff to do on a really slow day.

OP choice IMO correct to a point, follow and get more intel. Better description, vehicle, ect.

Lost sight of perp, sees car backing out and steps behind it; OK, any honest citizen backing out of a space and someone yells STOP while hitting the trunk, they are going to stop "What did I just about run over, a person, a kid... The OP got the right car, dicey move on his part but the right car regardless of losing sight of the suspect.

OK now what? The ante just got upped. Do that to a cop, plainclothes or uniform, and that is vehicular assault/attempted vehicular homicide. Do the Police hesitate to draw and fire? Yes, I know we are not police, does that mean that the classification of a deadly weapon and crime committed changes?

The snowball effect has started rolling, and the OP and the suspect are committed to it's end pending the choices they make with every heartbeat. No time to analyze and think it through, just act & react. OODA loop I think it is called.

And here a great many of you are, picking apart every second of his actions.

The OP is not a cop, was not playing cop, he was doing what he thought was the right thing to do at the time.

Personally, I would have more concern over someone stealing my wallet than my car. I know you have all heard of identity theft, and a purse/wallet is chock full of all a body needs to completely RUIN a persons life in short order, let alone a quick home robbery while the victim is at Wally World WAITING for the police to show up to make a report.
First off, this forum is here so we can pick apart and analyze defensive scenarios. Nobody has really gotten personal or attacked the OP, as far as I can tell.

Second, the point in this scenario where I think things took a turn for the worse was not the point where the OP decided to get involved, the point he decided to pursue the BG on foot (questionable logic, but trying to do the right thing), or even the point where he lost sight of the BG, and then tried to stop a car he thought contained the BG (logic pretty much went out the window at that point, but whatever).

It was the point when, unable to stop the car with verbal commands, the OP ran in front of the car and displayed his weapon, that this situation ceases to be a case of a concerned citizen doing the right thing, and becomes a permit holder playing cop, IMO. Not only did that act place the life of the OP in jeapordy, but it also upped the ante tremendously.

Also, if I'm backing out of a parking spot, and some guy runs up and starts beating on my car to get me to stop, I'm more than likely not going to....especially if it's at night, I'm in a rough part of town, and/or my son is in the car. I already know that I didn't hit anything and that nothing is behind me, because I have been watching as I'm backing up. And since I hadn't heard anyone identify themselves as a police officer, I'm definately putting some distance between myself and the person pounding on my car in order to buy time to assess the situation. Display of a weapon would be met with the appropriate response.

I don't see how the refusal of one civilian to stop their vehicle at the command of another would be escalating the situation. The OP was only at risk because, well, he stepped in front of a moving car. I'm guessing the law in his state would not have justified the use of deadly force at that point.
 
#79 ·
I guess I lack the skills to properly convey the point I am attempting to make. To continue the discussion on the flat screen is probably pointless with my evidently limited verbal skills. I think in person we could communicate considerably better and at the least understand the point the other is trying to make. One thing farronwolf, I seldom make assumptions or speculate, please don't let a miscommunication lead you to false assumptions either. Have a great day and stay safe! :)
 
#83 ·
I guess I can put in my 2 cents.

I think what you did was pretty foolish, although I did a similar thing with a drive off at a gas station I jumped into the back of the thief's pickup while he was driving off stealing a tank of gas. I stopped him and he paid, but after I thought about it I realized it was stupid. No life in danger, don't get involved. We don't need to play police. I realized I have a wife and kids that need me and for me to get shot over a tank of gas it not smart.

I am glad no one was hurt and I commend you on your heroism. Next time call the police. And stay safe.
 
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