What fatal error did these 2 cops make?

What fatal error did these 2 cops make?

This is a discussion on What fatal error did these 2 cops make? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "Puerto Rico - Two unsuspecting cops are gunned down by a suspect while investigating a robbery in a grocery store." LiveLeak.com - 2 puerto rican ...

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Thread: What fatal error did these 2 cops make?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    What fatal error did these 2 cops make?



    "Puerto Rico - Two unsuspecting cops are gunned down by a suspect while investigating a robbery in a grocery store."
    LiveLeak.com - 2 puerto rican cops down

    What did these 2 police men do wrong? Any LEOs here? It looks like someone should have been around that guy who was farthest away, and the cops were not very aware of him... gunman simply walked over to both of them and shot them both dead, the men did not even have a chance to draw their weapons in self defence.
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  2. #2
    Member Array MyMonkey's Avatar
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    Horrible. Just horrible.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    I would say just about everything. They should have search everyone in the store, just to begin with. They must have been called to what I assume was a robbery. You must control the crime scene and you must know the players. My prayers for their families.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    Holy cow.

    Videos like this make me realize that, as much as we all train and practice, stuff happens FAST.

    As to what they did wrong... They probably should have searched the suspects long before that point in the first place.
    Additionally, they probably should have been watching his hands - there were at least 3-4 seconds between when he drew the gun and when he fired the first shot, which I'd assume is enough time for an officer to react.
    But we're just armchair quarterbaking. I'd love to get Sixto or Sergeant Mac's opinions here.

    I'm off to do dry-fire mozambique-from-concealment drills for awhile....

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    Pete Zaria.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; June 2nd, 2008 at 01:14 AM. Reason: Deleted a language workaround.
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    Member Array strider72's Avatar
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    Armchair commando I may be, but I think everybody but the owner would have been on the floor til the place was secured and my gun would be out until that point. Everybody would be a suspect. But lets wait for sarge's opinion on it. Later.
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  6. #6
    Member Array Eirerogue's Avatar
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    Ret LEO here. Not enough information to say. Did the cops know the kid in front (shooter) and just didn't care about him? Or was it a robbery call or another false alarm? I'd also like to know where it was in PR.

    If you haven't lived there, then you wouldn't know that you can go to neighborhoods that are like out in the country and some nasty spots in San Juan that will you're in condition RED always.

    And this was an execution, not just a shooting. The shooter made sure they were both dead. Would love to know the follow-up on this. Terrible.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    It looked like officer #1 was searching a suspect in the back and officer# 2 walks in and looks around ,then looks like he walks over to ask #1 whats up and that's when things go really bad,I'm X-LEO and I would have had everybody spread on a counter or wall until I sorted out the story,and you never turn you're back,we had training scenarios where we walk in on a robbery we take BG down and all of a sudden lady customer pulls gun and she's an accomplice,It teaches you to never let you're guard down and get complacent.I've seen people question why LEO's disarm them and pat them down when they are good citizens and that film says it all
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I would say just about everything. They should have search everyone in the store, just to begin with. They must have been called to what I assume was a robbery. You must control the crime scene and you must know the players. My prayers for their families.
    There is another video on live leak showing someone who was taken to the police station, and the officer DID NOT search for weapons, the guy blew his head of with a 1911 after he took his last sip of bottled water... then all the cop could saw was "oh *&^% I never searched him!"
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    It looked like officer #1 was searching a suspect in the back and officer# 2 walks in and looks around ,then looks like he walks over to ask #1 whats up and that's when things go really bad,I'm X-LEO and I would have had everybody spread on a counter or wall until I sorted out the story,and you never turn you're back,we had training scenarios where we walk in on a robbery we take BG down and all of a sudden lady customer pulls gun and she's an accomplice,It teaches you to never let you're guard down and get complacent.I've seen people question why LEO's disarm them and pat them down when they are good citizens and that film says it all
    Very true... I hear horror stories about people who were outside of the "typical looking" BG, like young women etc, and when the LEOs guard was down, that's when they got attacked... from watching this video, any one can see how vital it is to be alert, that could mean the difference between life and death.

    I notice that too many people who legally carry guns believe they are "more safe" simply because they carry a firearm, so they become complacent... that's all a potential attacker really needs, someone unaware. That BG could have simply run away, but instead he noticed he had an opportunity to kill those officers (though they were armed, their guns might as well be on the moon because they were not alert and they were complacent.)
    Last edited by CR2008; June 2nd, 2008 at 12:03 AM. Reason: spelling
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  10. #10
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    That was very bad...and I'm sure having it on tape...these BG don't have a good retirement future...they will soon be meeting their maker...hopefully very soon!
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  11. #11
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    Its impossible to say just what went wrong with any degree of accuracy by just watching a grainy internet video. We can only speculate and make assumptions... in matters of life and death like this situation, it is always a grave mistake to speculate and make assumptions.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    It is easy to arm chair quarterback situations like this, sometimes too easy.

    My old departments S.O.P. would not have had those officers inside until we knew what exactly was going on. When a business opens up in an officer's beat they get contact information that is kept on file at their station. At communications we have the contact information that is filed with their alarm permit. When officers got on the scene we would have one of our people call the business and have one of the people on record come outside to talk to the officers. If they indicated any kind of trouble when we called, we would notify the officers and sometimes initiate an Emergency Response Team call out.

    That being said, we don't know if those officers had that kind of support available, or if someone did call the business, we don't know what they were told.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
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    Yes we don't have all of the facts to make a judgment of the two officers. However, being a former LEO, I would have come onto the scene with the shotgun from my patrol vehicle and everyone, including the owner, would be lying face down on the floor until backup arrived in sufficient numbers to properly control the scene. Everyone would then be handcuffed and searched until they could be properly identified.

    If any of the perpetrators on the scene drew their weapons, they would then be facing a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot. When I was a LEO, I always believed in superior weapons and numbers and tactics to handle a very dangerous situation. Put the BGs at a disadvantage - not yourself.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    What fatal error did these 2 cops make?
    Basically, not controlling the space. But then, I'm not LEO. Am not suggesting I've got answers about how best to control that space, but it's clear that failing to maintain control and "know thy enemy" contributed. Turning his back on the guy at the counter didn't help, either.

    Of course, this is a good warning to people who find themselves drawing to defend, in a public place. Questions abound. Are you certain that you've identified all players? Is anyone else nearby who is conniving on how to take you out? Are you certain that you're being seen by bystanders as the good guy in this situation? If two armed cops could be taken out, like this, it's not hard to see how the same thing could happen in any two-criminal situation you encounter, if you can't identify that more than one is there.
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  15. #15
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
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    Who knows what exactly was going on in that video......but whatever happened, the cops were completely caught off guard.....and then assasinated. Horrible. Reminds me that things can happen very fast and when you might not expect it.

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