What to do in another Virginia Tech incident?

This is a discussion on What to do in another Virginia Tech incident? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The thread http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...why-carry.html got me thinking. I would like to revisit the situation based on this girl's interview. So let's say you are at a ...

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Thread: What to do in another Virginia Tech incident?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    What to do in another Virginia Tech incident?

    The thread http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...why-carry.html got me thinking. I would like to revisit the situation based on this girl's interview.

    So let's say you are at a school and it is legal to carry there (like in Utah). All of a sudden, it is Virginia Tech all over again. You hear gun shots coming from down the hall. The teacher opens the door and sees someone coming down the hallway with a gun, shooting everyone in the classrooms. She instructs everyone to start barricading the door. But you armed, and even have a couple of extra magazines. Let's take best case scenario and you have a BUG, too.

    How do you take control of the situation? Do you inquire as to whether anyone else is armed? When do you pull out your gun? If you pull it out and act like a cowboy, you may instill more panic in your classroom than before. How do you inform others to take cover anticipating this maniacs entrance? Do you give a verbal warning to the shooter or just open fire? What if some liberal sheep starts yelling at you that violence is not the answer and starts physically attacking you? (Ironic, isn't it?) You obviously do not have a lot of time and being prepared as best you can will mean the difference between being shot and staying alive.
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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    I draw and get to the side of the door (close it if not closed already). I aim chest or head high. If door opens, I have a split second to decide if it's crazy guy or someone warning us.

    IF I have time, I may ask if anyone else is familiar with guns. If so, I MIGHT consider handing my BUG to the person. Given that it's a classroom, I might have gotten to know the other students over the course of the semester.

    If the sheep want to barricade the door, that's fine, but I won't participate. I'm preparing to shoot the shooter if he comes through the door.

    I may direct some young studs to stand behind me in order to overpower the shooter if my plan A fails. If shooter has an accomplice in the room, then I probably lose with that plan.

    If some sheep starts attacking me, I'll find out how fast a person goes down after a full punch to the throat. Then I'll resume my aim on the door.

    If I instill panic in the room by pulling a gun, xxxx 'em.

    I probably won't go hall hunting, as I might be mistaken for the BG. If carrying is legal there, other GG's with guns might take me out if they see me roaming the halls with gun drawn. I would also lose considerable tactical advantage by venturing into the hall. It may seem callous not to try to actively take out the shooter, but I'm in enough danger already. I don't need to add to it.

    Yeh, I think I draw and take position immediately. Too bad if others don't like it.

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    I probably won't go hall hunting, as I might be mistaken for the BG. If carrying is legal there, other GG's with guns might take me out if they see me roaming the halls with gun drawn. I would also lose considerable tactical advantage by venturing into the hall. It may seem callous not to try to actively take out the shooter, but I'm in enough danger already. I don't need to add to it.
    +1 I agree with Grady.
    Draw my weapon, be ready to take out the BG if he enters the room. To leave the room with gun drawn is asking to get shot, be it by the BG, another CCW permit holder, or LEO. My primary duty is to take care of myself, after all I do have a family at home. If by doing so I save another fine. Even if I had a BUG I'm not sure I would offer it to someone else. Not unless I knew the person VERY well, and had full trust in them.

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    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Find out who else is carrying and coordinate. Get the unarmed off to one side, concealed behind turned over desks. Create a concealed position behind a desk out in the middle of the floor, and wait there. (Alaska. Everyone has coats, etc.)

    "Beside or behind the door" was my first thought, but isn't it everyone's? If anyone wants to try it, I'd recommend they sit or kneel on the floor so they are below eye level or get up high if there's something that would support their weight. Get out of line of sight.

    Make sure that anyone who is likely to identify with the killer has someone ready to shut him/her up, fast.

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    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    The thread http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...why-carry.html got me thinking. I would like to revisit the situation based on this girl's interview.

    So let's say you are at a school and it is legal to carry there (like in Utah). All of a sudden, it is Virginia Tech all over again. You hear gun shots coming from down the hall. The teacher opens the door and sees someone coming down the hallway with a gun, shooting everyone in the classrooms. She instructs everyone to start barricading the door. But you armed, and even have a couple of extra magazines. Let's take best case scenario and you have a BUG, too.

    How do you take control of the situation? Do you inquire as to whether anyone else is armed? When do you pull out your gun? If you pull it out and act like a cowboy, you may instill more panic in your classroom than before. How do you inform others to take cover anticipating this maniacs entrance? Do you give a verbal warning to the shooter or just open fire? What if some liberal sheep starts yelling at you that violence is not the answer and starts physically attacking you? (Ironic, isn't it?) You obviously do not have a lot of time and being prepared as best you can will mean the difference between being shot and staying alive.

    IF there was a window I could safely jump out of, I would jump out... finding some mode of escape.

    IF escape was not an option,

    1. then I would tell everyone in the class room to get down and take cover while I drew my weapon.

    2. I would loudly inform them that I am a license holder holder and not to panic. (If some starts telling me "violence is not the answer" I hardly think he would attack me, considering they may not even attack their prospective killer, these are the type of people who rather plead for their lives on the knees while a gunman places the barrel right on their head.)

    3. I would try to take any cover I could and loudly try to warn anyone outside that I am legally armed and will not hesitate to defend myself, i would try to stay off to a corner of the room, rather than in front of it (because that may be the first place the mad man looks)... if I see anyone barraging through the door who is armed (in which should have been barricaded by desks and chairs), he would be shot. (I would expect an innocent person to be shouting for help, but barraging through the door while not asking for help, I will assume you mean to do harm.)

    I see no reason why I should stay behind such a situation if I could find escape, people are responsible for their own safety and this is certainly not a place I would want to be in, especially if YOU could be MISTAKENLY IDed as the killer only to be gun downed by law enforcement.... so I ain't staying if I can escape.
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    I shoot the bad guy. I march to the sound of the gun and when I get there I shoot the bad guy. I stay concealed as long as possible to avoid good guy fratracide.
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    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    If the instructor/professor has keys and you have time (gunshots aren't right outside) locking the door would probably be a great first step. Don't know about elsewhere, but the university here has heavy solid wooden doors.

    I'd consider trying to "cover" the hall while the prof locks up. All of my classes have a few ex-military in them; if I have a BUG they get it.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I would have to be there to decide to stay and defend or move to engage to stop the threat,If he they are inside a classroom shooting I take up a position to make sure they don't come back out into the hallway without getting shot by me.If colleges allowed concealed carry I don't think you'd see another virginia tech,chickens don't go where they may get shot before they carry out their plans
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Since we can't be sure if we are talking about a single shooter or not I would shelter in place. I would not suggest anyone exit the room as there could possibly be another or multiple shooters outside and this guy is just there to "drive the heard". I would ask anyone else was armed, or had any prior LEO or military training. If I found a suitable candidate who didn't bring their own, they get my BUG.
    If attacked by a liberal I would try to fend them off using a minimum of force and try to position them between me and the door . If the BG comes to our room I would let the liberal have the first crack at him, and if that failed fire for effect.
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    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    I've put some thought into this one... My personal input:

    1) Explain your CCW status to the instructor and tell him/her that you're going to take up a defensive position, and ask them to keep the students calm and quiet.
    If you know for a *fact* that someone else in the room is trustworthy and has good firearm handling skills, give them the BUG. If you have any doubts about this, do not arm anyone else.

    2) Set up on the wall along the door, choosing a backstop and "kill zone" if possible. If nothing else, make sure no one is directly across the doorway from you. Use cover or concealment as possible - turn over a desk to use as concealment / a stable shooting rest, etc....

    3) Turn the lights out and make yourself as hard to see as possible. The idea is to buy a few seconds of time to identify anyone coming through the door and make the shoot/no shoot-decision.

    4) When BG walks in door and target is confirmed (gun in hand and not LEO), it's go time. Zero verbal warnings - doing a Mozambique drill just in case he has a vest.

    5) After threat(s) are down, have someone else peek out into the hallway (using a mirror if available - a female student is bound to have one in her purse) for other threats and/or LEO. Keep covering the threat until you can 100% verify he's out of the fight, or until LEO arrive. Re-holster or turn over your weapon to LEO as directed and prepare for a huge barrage of legal bullcrap and media coverage.

    Did I miss anything?

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    What??!!??...all the replies leave me confused...you wouldn't go after the BG and save the day??? Protect other students??? If this was the mall, would that change your view?

    Oh, the irony in this scenario...for sure. I suspect that if CCW were allowed on campus...a number of students (and teachers) would be carrying.

    Rick

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    If the classroom can be evacuated do it. You're the last to go in order to cover escape.

    If you're trapped in the room, get all the unarmed against the wall and down. Construct cover for them from the desks. Construct cover for the armed in positions that allow them to 'pie' the door way(s).

    Cops are gonna be able to ID themselves and prove it. No one gets into the room w/out showing a badge. If a fleeing student wants in, they must enter backwards w/arms raised, fingers spread. They must then be thoroughly searched.

    I'm not sure about verbal warnings. If you gave one to a BG with a grenade or IED he might immediately use it. Anyone tries to get in, Mozambique Drill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. No warning shots.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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    Senior Member Array fernset's Avatar
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    I would telll the others to take cover tell them not to barricade the door and then draw my gun. Id stand several feet from the door and I would suppose the gun would be the first thing crossing the threashhold. Id pill the trigger till my gun is empty, including several shots to the head.

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    ...one more add...you all are assuming there is only one BG. One must always think multiples...

    Rick

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    If you go hunting, dump your bookbag first and use it as a shroud, held in front of the guy as you walk with it.

    Keep yourself from being shot outright by other CCW people and allows you to simply drop it and go to work when you someone you need to shoot.

    Their are many things you can do, barricade yourself with the rest of your class; escort the class to the exit and kill any bad guys you see or go hunting on your own.

    Whatever you do, don't do nothing.

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