Hypothetical scenario in liquor store - Page 2

Hypothetical scenario in liquor store

This is a discussion on Hypothetical scenario in liquor store within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; #2 is the best choice. This scenario could happen anywhere. As soon as the BG introduces a gun in the mix and threaten anyone he ...

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Thread: Hypothetical scenario in liquor store

  1. #16
    Member Array NKMG19's Avatar
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    #2 is the best choice. This scenario could happen anywhere. As soon as the BG introduces a gun in the mix and threaten anyone he has just escalated the situation to justify the use of deadly force in Florida. I would take aim at him and shout "drop it" to take his attention away from the others and then shoot him at the same time.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Has the 'Deadly Force Triangle' been met? Sounds like it has. The laws of the State your in are clear enough but we all know how things can get twisted around when presented to a jury. Bottom line, is it a life or death situation/scenario? Yep.

    Regardless of what action you (or I) take, the first order of business is skinning leather, staying outta said BG's line of sight if possiable, and mentally readying yourself for a fight.



    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Fact...getting off first in any type of combat dramatically increases your chance of winning. Find yourself in a fist fight that you can't avoid? Hit first and hit with everything you got. Ask a boxer or mma fighter and they'll tell you to be first. The military calls it the element of surprise, initiative, and shock affect. #2 with a head shot is silly. #2 with 4 hits COM means you win and the bad guy dies. The muscle spasm argument is so stupid it borders on ridiculous. You guys are watching waaaaaay too much tv.

    Ask any professional and he'll tell you to BE FIRST! Win this gunfight before the BG even knows you're there!!!
    +1! Be fast, decisive, and true of aim!
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  3. #18
    Member Array madmunky40's Avatar
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    I agree with using option #2. But from what i gather from the scenario, you've got ur friend and cashier with the BG facing them and the BGs back to you. That to me sounds that if you shot, ur friend and the cashier would also be in ur line of fire albeit behind the BG.
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  4. #19
    Member Array GHFLRLTD's Avatar
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    Assuming Florida

    Number 2 -

    776.031 Use of force in defense of others.--A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
    Given that the Bright Line indicated above, the following applies:

    As John Bernard Books - John Wayne's character in his last movie The Shootist stated - You Must Be WILLING. There can be NO hesitation as soon as the opportunity/shot is cleared tactically after the Bright Line has been and remains crossed.
    George H. Foster
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  5. #20
    Member Array MountainPacker's Avatar
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    GHFLRLTD,

    I wish our castle doctrine law was like that, but in Colorado, I'm not protected that way in a liquor store.

    My concearn for #2, though it provides the highest likelyhood of myself and the other innocents being able to walk away, is that it could be argued (successfully or not) the threat wasn't imminent because he only wanted the money and wouldn't have hurt anyone, or some such thing. That because I didn't give him a chance to drop his weapon, I'm some blood thirsty murderer out to kill insert your choice of oppressed group here as evidenced by my choice of ammo, caliber, weapon...

    Of course there's also that Seattle Mall shooting where the gunman was confronted by a CCW holder who told him to drop it. The gunman then took out the CCW holder with his rifle and moved on.

    If I were outgunned like the Seattle guy, I'd definitely shoot first. Having the drop on a guy with a pistol, I don't know. The odds would be in my favor there, but I'm not inclined to gamble with my life.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I will go with the standard answer. You should avoid situations like that to begin with. If you think you need a gun to go somewhere, you shouldn't be going there in the first place.

    My thoughts exactly. I'm nobody's bodyguard and my CC permit does not give me special police powers. If the purpose of me being there is strictly to protect someone, I'm not going and I will try to talk them out of going too.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  7. #22
    Member Array MountainPacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    My thoughts exactly. I'm nobody's bodyguard and my CC permit does not give me special police powers. If the purpose of me being there is strictly to protect someone, I'm not going and I will try to talk them out of going too.
    Fair enough.

    But if a situation played out like this where you were expecting no trouble, what would you do?

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    No doubt.... #2.

    Prob COM though, not a head shot.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    Maybe I could try a Walker Texas Ranger shot and shoot the gun from his hand.
    If you were Chuck Norris all you would have to do is announce yourself and the guy would shoot himself so as to not bother you.

    I'm thinking as soon as he moves his hand a little to the side, away from the clerk, I'd tap 2 in to COM and continue if needed.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    My thoughts exactly. I'm nobody's bodyguard and my CC permit does not give me special police powers. If the purpose of me being there is strictly to protect someone, I'm not going and I will try to talk them out of going too.
    What if you had a friend or relative that lived in a real real rough neighborhood and they invited you to some birthday party or something like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainPacker View Post
    GHFLRLTD,

    I wish our castle doctrine law was like that, but in Colorado, I'm not protected that way in a liquor store.

    My concearn for #2, though it provides the highest likelyhood of myself and the other innocents being able to walk away, is that it could be argued (successfully or not) the threat wasn't imminent because he only wanted the money and wouldn't have hurt anyone, or some such thing. That because I didn't give him a chance to drop his weapon, I'm some blood thirsty murderer out to kill insert your choice of oppressed group here as evidenced by my choice of ammo, caliber, weapon...

    Of course there's also that Seattle Mall shooting where the gunman was confronted by a CCW holder who told him to drop it. The gunman then took out the CCW holder with his rifle and moved on.

    If I were outgunned like the Seattle guy, I'd definitely shoot first. Having the drop on a guy with a pistol, I don't know. The odds would be in my favor there, but I'm not inclined to gamble with my life.
    I read that the CCW permit holder hesitated because he saw that it was a kid doing the killings... as I told people before, hesitation gets you inside a morgue because of giving up what little window of opportunity was there.

    Some months ago a 12 year old Gang banger wana be held up a retired Marine with a 12 gauge, and the marine had his CCW and drew and shot the kid dead... there was not too much heat on the guy because most people know what the score was if he never acted or hesitated to act, probably would be in the morgue because these Metro Atlanta punks are shooting first and asking questions last.
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  11. #26
    Member Array Detroittwister's Avatar
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    #2 with no hesitation. Drop him before he shoots the cashier, your friend or you.
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  12. #27
    Member Array gicts's Avatar
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    interesting. We can not carry in a liquor store.... at least that's what a fancy sign on the door said that referred to state law. Not seeing much in the way of stores though in the law books

  13. #28
    Member Array hinkleid's Avatar
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    Easy question

    #2, Double Tap COM (45) and an easy shot since you have the element of surprise. Fight will be over like that. Once he is shot others will duck or run, and if he has anything left to turn to you, pop him a couple more for good measure.

    Legally you should be fine. BG using a firearm in the commission of a felony. Lives of all around in imminent danger. Only a brain dead DA would charge someone in this, and we all know that no DA's are brain dead as they made it through Law school and passed the BAR exam.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinkleid View Post

    and we all know that no DA's (lawyers) are brain dead as they made it through Law school and passed the BAR exam.


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainPacker View Post
    I was playing poker last night with a group of guys. It was my first time with these guys. Good guys.

    A friend of mine was going to get more beer. I don't drink. I was packing. The game was at a business with a secure barbed wire permiter, but in one of those below the elevated highway nasty neighborhoods. The nearby liquor store was a poster child for armed robberies in a bad neighborhood. I went with him simply to cover his backside. I don't think he even knew I was carrying that night. The store we ended up at made me think of this scenario.

    -------------

    You're with a friend who is picking up some beer. While he's purusing the beer, you are at the opposite corner so you can cover him, if need be. Anyone coming in and facing the cashier would have their back to you. BG enters and has his gun on the cashier or your friend. He has his back to you. He's yelling obsceneties, making threats and demanding money.

    Do you:
    1. Tell him to drop it at gun point
    2. Pop him in the back of the head unannounced
    3. Just wait it out and hope for the best.
    Choice n 2.

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