Hypothetical scenario in liquor store

This is a discussion on Hypothetical scenario in liquor store within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was playing poker last night with a group of guys. It was my first time with these guys. Good guys. A friend of mine ...

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Thread: Hypothetical scenario in liquor store

  1. #1
    Member Array MountainPacker's Avatar
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    Hypothetical scenario in liquor store

    I was playing poker last night with a group of guys. It was my first time with these guys. Good guys.

    A friend of mine was going to get more beer. I don't drink. I was packing. The game was at a business with a secure barbed wire permiter, but in one of those below the elevated highway nasty neighborhoods. The nearby liquor store was a poster child for armed robberies in a bad neighborhood. I went with him simply to cover his backside. I don't think he even knew I was carrying that night. The store we ended up at made me think of this scenario.

    -------------

    You're with a friend who is picking up some beer. While he's purusing the beer, you are at the opposite corner so you can cover him, if need be. Anyone coming in and facing the cashier would have their back to you. BG enters and has his gun on the cashier or your friend. He has his back to you. He's yelling obsceneties, making threats and demanding money.

    Do you:
    1. Tell him to drop it at gun point
    2. Pop him in the back of the head unannounced
    3. Just wait it out and hope for the best.


    If you tell him to drop it he may spin and start trading shots with you at short range. If you just drop him, you may be in more legal hot water afterward. If you wait it out, you may get robbed and your gun lifted from you at gun point, now your gun is out there being used to hurt people.

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  3. #2
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    #2 is the short answer. Not in the head though, he gets about four rounds in the back COM. If you hit him in the spine his nervous system will shut off and he'll lose any ability to shoot someone else.
    Last edited by atctimmy; June 15th, 2008 at 04:23 PM. Reason: content
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I will go with the standard answer. You should avoid situations like that to begin with. If you think you need a gun to go somewhere, you shouldn't be going there in the first place.

    As far as if I would fire or not, it would completely depend on many things. How agitated he is. If he is looking around. If is pointing the gun at somebody vs waving it around. If his finger is on the trigger. In other words, way too many things to try to figure out in front of a keyboard. One thing, if I feel I need to act, I'm not going to worry about legal problems later on. If I feel I need to act, there will be adequate reasons, but then again, I live in TX and adequate reasons are defined a little differently down here.
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    #2. He's already proven he is a threat to your life and your friends life let alone the cashier who has the money.
    Shoot him with out any warning. Being a criminal thug is a dangerous line of work. They know the risks when they get into it.
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    Member Array yemenmocha's Avatar
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    #2 but would probably not aim at head unless very close. Several shots center of body. I'm not that good at marksmanship.

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    BG ... has his gun on the cashier or your friend
    seems fairly clear to me that deadly force would be autorized so I vote #2. Since you live in Colorado:

    18-1-704. Use of physical force in defense of a person.
    Statute text

    (1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.

    (2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

    (a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

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    I'm with a friend...I'm off in a corner (unnoticed?)...BG threatens lives with a gun...????

    Make that a BIG #2...several shots to COM until the threat is stopped!
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    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    I don't think I'd shoot while the gun is pointed at someone. I wouldn't want to cause him to squeeze the trigger and kill them.

    Maybe I could try a Walker Texas Ranger shot and shoot the gun from his hand.

  10. #9
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    Let him get the money and leave. If your first shot doesn't shut him down, if it's even legal in your state, people will die from your actions. If he starts shooting, that's different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    I don't think I'd shoot while the gun is pointed at someone. I wouldn't want to cause him to squeeze the trigger and kill them.

    Maybe I could try a Walker Texas Ranger shot and shoot the gun from his hand.
    I really hope you are joking.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I really hope you are joking.
    I wasn't joking about not shooting when he's aiming at someone else. That's pretty serious stuff there.

    I was joking about the Walker Texas Ranger shot. It was my answer to everyone that picked option #2, because I hope all of you are joking. A shot to his hand is probably the only way to ensure he won't shoot someone else. When I saw all of the people saying they'd pick option #2 that's what flashed in my head.

    Otherwise you probably just killed the cashier or your friend. If you shoot a BG when he's aiming at something you would more than likely cause the BG to shoot the person he's aiming at. Just a tensing of muscles from the pain would be enough to squeeze that trigger.

    Sure, the root cause of the innocent person being injured or even killed lies with the BG. But I wouldn't want to live with the guilt for the rest of my life.

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    When thinking about any situation I try to ask myself, "What would Jason Bourne do?" JK, but here's my take.

    Assuming the BG doesn't realize you are there and the 4 of you are the only ones in the store, I'd throw a can of soup or something heavy into the corner opposite you. When the BG turns his head (and gun) away from your friend and the cashier to investigate, you drill him. That way you avoid muscle spasms, etc and the only casualty would likely be a box of bad wine.

    I'd rather he be looking the opposite direction from me, but I suppose you could also cough or sneeze as a way of drawing his attention from the others before you take him. It's a fairly innocuous sound that announces your presence and diverts his attention without the worry of overly startling the BG and causing him to do something really stupid.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post

    Assuming the BG doesn't realize you are there and the 4 of you are the only ones in the store, I'd throw a can of soup or something heavy into the corner opposite you. When the BG turns his head (and gun) away from your friend and the cashier to investigate, you drill him. That way you avoid muscle spasms, etc and the only casualty would likely be a box of bad wine.
    Alcohol abuse is a bad thing...

    But still, you can always mop up the wine...Good plan.

  16. #15
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    Fact...getting off first in any type of combat dramatically increases your chance of winning. Find yourself in a fist fight that you can't avoid? Hit first and hit with everything you got. Ask a boxer or mma fighter and they'll tell you to be first. The military calls it the element of surprise, initiative, and shock affect. #2 with a head shot is silly. #2 with 4 hits COM means you win and the bad guy dies. The muscle spasm argument is so stupid it borders on ridiculous. You guys are watching waaaaaay too much tv.

    Ask any professional and he'll tell you to BE FIRST! Win this gunfight before the BG even knows you're there!!!
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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