Motorcyclists, You are the victim of a hit and run..

Motorcyclists, You are the victim of a hit and run..

This is a discussion on Motorcyclists, You are the victim of a hit and run.. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, I got to thinking about this and what I might have done different. I will try to just keep this a summary. I have ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Motorcyclists, You are the victim of a hit and run..

    OK, I got to thinking about this and what I might have done different. I will try to just keep this a summary. I have a tendency to get a little riled up when relating this episode. Ten years ogo…

    My now wife and I (when we were still dating) were going to her parents house for dinner, and we were on my bike. Two lane each direction surface street, 35mph, Sunday afternoon about 4:00. We are in the right lane, left track (and 1 of two times that I have ever just rode with the flow, no hurry to get anywhere, usually doing flow +5mph) climbing a fairly steep hill and I hear tires screeching. I look in my right mirror and all I see is a Ford emblem, drifting to my left. I move the bike to the right track and start accelerating (really in the wrong gear for a quick move with passenger and hill). I look over to my left and I watch this car slide sideways into the left lane, passing me going uphill.

    The image that is burned into my head is the four occupants of the car of, “South ‘o the border origin”, do not have the look of “OH , we’re going to wipe out” It was “Whoo Hooo!!! Roller Coaster ride!!”

    The car did an abrupt vector change and came straight at us, hitting the bike in the saddle bag (left rear corner) knocking the bike into a fishtail. I tried to get her back under control for a couple of swings and knew it was a lost cause. I waited until the next swing and laid her back (now sideways), hooked my elbow under my passengers arm and kicked off before we got high sided. I loved her, but she is 1000 pounds of uncontrolled mass that I did not want to be in front of while we are sliding up the road.

    Before the bike stopped rolling (side over side) I was on my feet looking for the vehicle (at this time I had been riding for 22 years, it is safe to say I know how to tuck and roll). I really wanted to have a talk with the driver and what I thought of his driving abilities. I located the car that had hopped the curb and ended up in the planting area at the end of the parking spaces in an apartment complex. I started walking towards the driver, and the car, backed up, turned around and started coming at me…increasing speed, all occupants still having a good ‘ol time.

    The car swerved around me - barely, went back onto the street, back up on the sidewalk, passing all the traffic stopped at the light, through the intersection and continued on their way. I am ashamed to say that at this point I had completely forgotten about my date, and her location. I was beyond and really wanted to talk to the driver. As it turns out, she had just gotten back on her feet (she was still laying in the road, and the car all but skimmed her).

    So, I put it to you…You are where I was, just getting back on your feet, you locate the vehicle and see it coming towards you. You still have your carry piece with you.

    Know this. Hit and run accidents in Denver are pretty much never resolved.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I'm going to refrain from answering because I don't want to ruin this thread. I also want to see what answers others come up with. I will post later what my response should be, based upon safety and the law.

    Biker

  3. #3
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    you are not supposed to use your ccw as a tool of revenge, if your life is in immediate danger use it; otherwise you are in the wrong.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I'm going to refrain from answering because I don't want to ruin this thread. I also want to see what answers others come up with. I will post later what my response should be, based upon safety and the law.

    Biker
    Just as I will refrain from relating info I received while laying on the backboard in the ambulance, and in the meeting with the detective a week later.

    Sixto - The car already smacked you once, turning you into a pedestrian in traffic, now it is coming at you after you are back on your feet, there is no look of fear in the occupants, all are having a great time. You are a LEO if I remember correctly. You do nothing?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post

    Sixto - The car already smacked you once, turning you into a pedestrian in traffic, now it is coming at you after you are back on your feet, there is no look of fear in the occupants, all are having a great time. You are a LEO if I remember correctly. You do nothing?
    I didnt say I'd do nothing, here is what I said;

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    you are not supposed to use your ccw as a tool of revenge, if your life is in immediate danger use it; otherwise you are in the wrong.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #6
    Member Array prawls's Avatar
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    Car that has knocked you off your bike and is now driving quickly back at you sounds like immediate danger to your life or the life of your date that could have still been lying in the road.
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I would have to say you should get out of the way and get a description of the car and the plates. It goes against the grain to not stand up for yourself, but with 3 passengers in the car, the fact that a bullet will fragment upon entering a windshield, and the fact that you have no idea of the drivers intentions or the passengers, I just don't think a 'defensive shooter' would have a chance in court.

    If you're in fear for your life, and the loss of your 2A rights and the jail time is worth it, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

    But I don't believe there is a jury or DA that would not just look at it as a road rage/revenge shooting.

    Unfortunately, in this situation, I just don't believe you have much of a choice.

    Perhaps it's one of the few situations where if you recognized the person it would be a more justifiable shoot than if it was a stranger. It could certainly appear as if you were a selected target after he came at you the second time.

    I don't know. Tough call. With gang initiations getting as stupid as they are, who knows when or if running over a biker will be on the list for the day.

    So, how was the bike?
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The car swerved around me - barely,
    That is attempted vehicular homicide. "Swerving" is a different state than "swerved," I'll just leave it there...

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    In the scenario you described, I can't find any justification to draw, let alone use, a weapon.

    The incident could easily have been caused by inattentive driving in the first place, and the driver could have been returning to make sure that you weren't injured after the fact. Once it became clear that that wasn't his intention, he was already fleeing the scene and the threat to you and your passenger had passed. Regardless of what you may have learned after the fact, I don't see how you could have been justified in using deadly force with the information that was available to you at the time.

    BTW, I've been on the wrong end of car/motorcycle accidents too. They're not any fun. Glad you're both ok.

  10. #10
    Member Array NKMG19's Avatar
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    I would draw only if I ended up in a position where I could not get out of the path of the on-coming car. Then again this would be a really thin line between escape or stand and fight. Tough call.
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  11. #11
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    The "some people just need shootin" defense hasn't worked in a long time.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  12. #12
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    Get a vehicle and plate description, then get to a hospital...the 'cosmos' will take care of the dirtbag who left the scene...

    My weapon is not for revenge...
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    If the same sequence of events were to happen to a motorcycle patrolman...

    I'm pretty sure of the outcome.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    I can see how him coming back at you could be interpreted as him coming back to finish you off. Since your GF was still laying in the street and unable to jump out of the way, shooting him then might be justifiable. It sounds like you could have got out of the way, but your GF was still immobile.

    But keep in mind you are shooting the controller of a moving vehicle. You could be held responsible for that out of control car as well as any stray bullets from your gun.

    For me, your last statement in your post raises a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Know this. Hit and run accidents in Denver are pretty much never resolved.
    Would you be shooting to defend yourself or to stop your attacker?

  15. #15
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    Draw and defend? No way is it justifiable, and even if it was justifiable, you will go to jail.

    Here is how it will be interpreted in court. "Officer, I lost control of my car and hit the motorcycle. It was horrible, I never wanted to hurt anyone. The crazy rider, he had a gun and walked up to the car. I was scared for my life and just wanted to get out of there."

    Witnesses will later testify they saw the motorcycle rider walking toward the car with a gun in his and and thought that he pointed the gun at the car.

    You will go to jail.
    Last edited by ctr; June 18th, 2008 at 12:17 PM. Reason: spelling

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