approached in the parking lot today... - Page 2

approached in the parking lot today...

This is a discussion on approached in the parking lot today... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "what to do if you were not in the van/car and a homeless person looking for a handout comes walking towards you and when you ...

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Thread: approached in the parking lot today...

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    "what to do if you were not in the van/car and a homeless person looking for a handout comes walking towards you and when you warn them, they just laugh and keep coming." - bandit383


    That wasnt the situation posted by the OP. Therefore, different answeres/tactics/'what ifs'.
    In a vehicle, doors locked, windows up, it would, at least to me, seem the logical answere to put it in gear and leave. That van has waaaaaay more 'ballistic potential' than any pistol out there, if indeed it is needed. But just pulling away from the threat seems the most favorable, and desirable outcome.

    Dan


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdsumner View Post
    "i got (in my van), and started to look at my receipt. a guy i noticed earlier in the store saw me as i saw him; he changed direction and walked towards my van."-jahwarrior72

    Again, I'm not there, so no judgement made on my part. But, IF you began to feel 'iffy', why not start the van and drive off?

    Dan
    i was in a pretty tight spot, literally. whoever designed the parking lot didn't figure on vans parking in it, it seems. it took me at least a minute to pull into a spot, it would've taken too long to get out. that's more than enough time to have a window smashed.

    i talked about it with my g/f this morning. she watches the news more than i do; she said she's not surprised, a couple of people have been held up at knife point there this year. this supermarket is located in what you'd call a good neighborhood, as well. like alot of boroughs here, it's a "one cop town."

    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    I too think she could be arrested for brandishing but glad it turned out in her favor. But it is an intersting point though...what to do if you were not in the van/car and a homeless person looking for a handout comes walking towards you and when you warn them, they just laugh and keep coming.

    Rick

    he, and his!

  3. #18
    Senior Moderator
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    I think you seriously erred in not reporting the incident to the police.

    As a general rule, if you draw your firearm, there should be a report made.

    Otherwise, you're open to someone filing a complaint against you.

    Matt
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  4. #19
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    I think you seriously erred in not reporting the incident to the police.

    As a general rule, if you draw your firearm, there should be a report made.

    Otherwise, you're open to someone filing a complaint against you.

    Matt

    you're absolutely right. i always think of the right thing to do the day after.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Again,
    not there, dont know all the details. Just figgerin' that if an avenue of egress, especially protected by a vehicle is available, that option is number one.

    Dan

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    he, and his!
    My bad...sorry.

    Rick

  7. #22
    Member Array JusticeDun's Avatar
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    More than likely this guy was up to no good...you did good. If you tell the guy to back off and he doesn't, then you have every right to let him know your not a sheeple.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Of course I wasn't there....but you were definitely being interviewed for a victim position (I'm sure you didn't want the job). Probably need to be more situationally aware...as soon as you declined the interview, started the car and left. Depending on the distance, I probably would not have shown my weapon. I'm sure you felt your life was in danger

    However, the guy probably thought you could not defend yourself--and that was a mistake.....hopefully he will re-think his position and make different choices.

    The only other thing I think you should have done is call the police on the non-emergency number and told them what happened. Remember, the first one to call is the victim...the last one is the defendant.
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  9. #24
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    Personally, fleeing if available is preferrable. Cover is second. Shooting is the last ditch defense. BUT, you may have saved his life. Had you not let him know you were armed and dangerous, he may have brandished his own weapon and you would have been forced to shoot him. I probably would have told him, "Back away, now!" while keeping the weapon out of sight.
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  10. #25
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    What would have put me on high alert is the fact that he kept pressing the issue.

    Someone genuinely looking for a smoke, asks for one and when someone says, "Don't have any," they move on to the next person. If they keep coming closer and insisting then they become a threat.

    I've never been approached by anyone in a parking lot before. I have, however, approached people in parking lots.. Believe it or not I was asking for a ladder..lol.. LONG story.

    I'm not sure exactly what I would have done but I certainly would have been on alert because of the guy. Like I said, no one insists on pestering someone who has already turned them down unless they really want to go away with SOMETHING.

  11. #26
    Member Array drkavngr's Avatar
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    The only other thing I think you should have done is call the police on the non-emergency number and told them what happened. Remember, the first one to call is the victim...the last one is the defendant.
    Would maybe contacting an attorney about the issue, and then reporting it to the police be a good idea?

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    What would have put me on high alert is the fact that he kept pressing the issue.

    Someone genuinely looking for a smoke, asks for one and when someone says, "Don't have any," they move on to the next person. If they keep coming closer and insisting then they become a threat.
    Yup. Pretty simple. Aggressive panhandling is just that, but with the emphasis on aggressive.
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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    MY point... is yes, someone approaching for a cigarette, might be a bad guy. However, as described.... he was doing nothing that was a threat as such, and here.... if you pulled and brandished a gun, you would be in jail. Period.

    But I would be watching his hands, be on alert, and letting him know rather adamantly to back off if I didn't like the situation.

    Have I ever met a guy hitting me up for a cigarette or couple bucks turn belligerent or ... get near what I would call a robbery attempt... YES. But , 1 out of 200 or more.

    But, I was never pulling out my gun and brandishing it at them. That's considered a threat, and that's going to get a bad name for us all if people start doing that stuff, particularly when there is no obvious threat. By pulling the gun, you just became the threat because the guy had not made any threats, no actions that could be construed as one, and had not shown or displayed any weapons. Sorry folks, do that here... you'll be in jail, loose your license, and never be allowed to buy a firearm of any kind again... and may well lose every gun you do own.

    It doesn't mean... they couldn't have the gun handy on the seat next to them, and/or their hand on it, doors locked, and warned them to back off LOUDLY (gaining attention to the situation) ..... and to drive off... and hope he's out of the way before they accidentally run them over.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Are you JOKING...... you've never been approached by the homeless or others in the parking lots for a cigarette.. a light ... a couple of bucks ?? Happens all of the time.
    I'm not sure where you're from, maybe somewhere where folks don't get mugged regularly? Where I grew up(Baltimore)... those kind of questions that get repeated or built on while the person is continually pushing their luck to get forward in the parking lot usually are followed by an attack. I've seen it in person far too many times. I think he did good. If you read between the lines, he was quite...coarse in his responses after the first rebuttal but the guy kept pushing it. That's a major key in to someone who wants something and isn't going to stop unless you stop them.

    As for the homeless guy comments? What's your point? Are all homeless people to be considered friend immediately just because they're asking for a few bucks? I've seen a group of homeless guys beat 2 guys down on the street, steal his coat, shoes, wallet, and watch, and scurry back off into the darkness. No one is friend unless and until you've verified their intentions and only the person right there on the spot in that moment can make that determination, because quite frankly, a lot of it is going to gut "feeling" based on observation of all factors at the scene at the time.

    After re-reading my post, it may seem at first glance like I'm attacking you, but I assure you I mean no harm. I'm just pointing out the other side of the equation that you seemed to miss. There's a lot to be said for a guy that keeps pressing the issue and BODY language which any poster really can't articulate. It's all observation, the kind that makes the hair on the back of your neck go all tingly. Could he have been popped for brandishing? Probably, depending on the state, but is he alive? When it comes down to staying alive or worrying about getted busted for brandishing, which one would you prefer? In one case, at least you get your day in court...can't say as much for the other alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    MY point... is yes, someone approaching for a cigarette, might be a bad guy. However, as described.... he was doing nothing that was a threat as such, and here.... if you pulled and brandished a gun, you would be in jail. Period.

    But I would be watching his hands, be on alert, and letting him know rather adamantly to back off if I didn't like the situation.

    Have I ever met a guy hitting me up for a cigarette or couple bucks turn belligerent or ... get near what I would call a robbery attempt... YES. But , 1 out of 200 or more.

    But, I was never pulling out my gun and brandishing it at them. That's considered a threat, and that's going to get a bad name for us all if people start doing that stuff, particularly when there is no obvious threat. By pulling the gun, you just became the threat because the guy had not made any threats, no actions that could be construed as one, and had not shown or displayed any weapons. Sorry folks, do that here... you'll be in jail, loose your license, and never be allowed to buy a firearm of any kind again... and may well lose every gun you do own.

    It doesn't mean... they couldn't have the gun handy on the seat next to them, and/or their hand on it, doors locked, and warned them to back off LOUDLY (gaining attention to the situation) ..... and to drive off... and hope he's out of the way before they accidentally run them over.
    But that's the problem with these kind of posts. Neither one of us were there, so we CAN'T say he hadn't make any kind of action to be construed as a threat. There's going to be actions and body language that can't be articulated in a post on a web site.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    he stopped about 20 feet from my van, and asked if i could spare a cigarette. i said no. he looked at me, then said "you ain't got a cigarette?" i repeated myself, then added that i quit last month.

    he looked at me, then grinned. "c'mon, man. you ain't got a smoke?" he started walking towards me again, at which time i told him, pretty frenchly, to stop, and stay away from my van.

    "or what?" he laughed, putting a hand in his pocket.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    sorry... to me sounds like over-reaction, and unless you have a life threatening situation... the gun should never have come out. I'm afraid here, it could have ended you up in jail for brandishing a weapon.
    The guy was making demands, reaching into his pocket, and approaching closer than 20 feet... Seems potentially life-threatening.

    Several replies in this thread charged jahwarrior72 with brandishing. Presuming that the incident occurred in Pennsylvania (jahwarrior72's location), does the word "brandish" appear in the PA statutes? I searched an online PA Code of Statutes and couldn't find it, but maybe I missed something.

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