Law Enforcement Vehicle Encounter.

This is a discussion on Law Enforcement Vehicle Encounter. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bark'n Sixto... you'd puke if you heard what LEO pay around here is! Sad, very sad... And you're right... for example around ...

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Thread: Law Enforcement Vehicle Encounter.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Sixto... you'd puke if you heard what LEO pay around here is! Sad, very sad...

    And you're right... for example around Kansas City, and St. Louis... Starting pay is somewhere close to $38K
    Bump that by another 15 -20K and thats the starting pay around here at the better departments. After 5 years or so, it isn't all that uncommon to be approaching 6 figures with court and overtime.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Bump that by another 15 -20K and thats the starting pay around here at the better departments. After 5 years or so, it isn't all that uncommon to be approaching 6 figures with court and overtime.
    For me it's all about top pay when I retire. I started in 1998 at 28k which is tough in NJ. I made Sergeant in 8 years thanks to a rocking civil service score and veterans preference and I base now in the 6 figures.

    I think the most important thing for these civilian vs. LEO threads (which I hate) is that you (civilian) and I (Off duty LEO) must defer all authority to the uniformed officer on scene. If you think the Officer is wrong then request a road boss to come on scene. Every MV stop and contact in my agency is videotaped with audio and we vigorously prosecute those who file false complaints against us. On the other hand, we are also held very accountable for our actions; especially if they are outside the scope of our policy, procedure, rule, regulations and the law.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi.45 View Post
    For me it's all about top pay when I retire. I started in 1998 at 28k which is tough in NJ. I made Sergeant in 8 years thanks to a rocking civil service score and veterans preference and I base now in the 6 figures.
    Supervisors here will base close to if not in 6 figure ranges, but I have more opportunity to make more and do more as a patrolman. I'm not ready for an office yet, I enjoy the street to much. Plus, I'm still on the young side, most of our supervisors have 10-15 years on.
    Ask me again in 4 or 5 years, I just might want some bars or stripes and a desk by then.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Supervisors here will base close to if not in 6 figure ranges, but I have more opportunity to make more and do more as a patrolman. I'm not ready for an office yet, I enjoy the street to much. Plus, I'm still on the young side, most of our supervisors have 10-15 years on.
    Ask me again in 4 or 5 years, I just might want some bars or stripes and a desk by then.
    Yeah, me too. Working for God doesn't pay all that much, BUT, the retirement benefits are out of this world!"
    "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Eccl. 10:2

  6. #35
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    Sounds like you handled it well -- properly assertive w/o being aggressive. Good job.

    Re: revoked registration.

    Years ago, I have a similar thing happen to my wife (no firearms involved, as this was MD ). In our case it was because of an overpayment of insurance.

    We had dropped a car from the policy (gave it to the daughter who had been the primary driver, as she could insure it cheaper at college. The only aspect of out-of-state college that was cheaper ).

    The Insurance company had a auto-payment-withdrawal from the bank in process for too much. They returned it to the bank (the whole thing, not just the overpayment) but didn't notify us -- then the computer notified the State that the policy had lapsed for non-payment.

    The LEOs didn't confiscate the car, but would have had been had we not had it towed -- as it could not be driven on the road w/o insurance. We rented a car for the weekend. Got everything cleared up -- eventually, including reimbursement for all the actual cost (nothing for inconvenience) from the insurance company (after getting an attorney). Then we changed insurance companies -- and got a break on the rate.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi.45 View Post
    For me it's all about top pay when I retire. I started in 1998 at 28k which is tough in NJ. I made Sergeant in 8 years thanks to a rocking civil service score and veterans preference and I base now in the 6 figures.
    Off-topic, but I thought veteran's preference had no bearing on promotion exams? I know they matter for entry exams in NJ. I just passed my three year mark so I can take the promotion exam for sheriff's officer this year. Senior officers at top pay in my dept. make around 75k for base salary, without overtime or pay jobs. Sgts make around 90K.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulle46 View Post
    Off-topic, but I thought veteran's preference had no bearing on promotion exams? I know they matter for entry exams in NJ. I just passed my three year mark so I can take the promotion exam for sheriff's officer this year. Senior officers in my dept. make around 75k for base salary, without overtime or pay jobs. Sgts make around 90K.
    That would depend on the civil service rules in that area. Some do, some don't. Another factor in military time is if your pension counts military time for retirement... that could boost your seniority points too.
    I bought back my military time so I can have the option of retiring before I hit 50.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulle46 View Post
    Off-topic, but I thought veteran's preference had no bearing on promotion exams? I know they matter for entry exams in NJ. I just passed my three year mark so I can take the promotion exam for sheriff's officer this year. Senior officers at top pay in my dept. make around 75k for base salary, without overtime or pay jobs. Sgts make around 90K.
    I was #1 in the rule of three; there were at least two Sergeant vacancies, so as a veteran I locked the list and I had to be made. The only veterans preference for promotion is #1 can't be skipped if no other veterans are with you in the rule of three and veterans have preference in a tie score.

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  10. #39
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    I'm 22 years old. I had never been pulled over before for anything, not once. I had no idea what was going on. it was a new experience. Kind of freaky. I wasn't sure on what I could or couldn't do. Or what I could or couldn't say. The last thing I would want to do is disrespect the officer. Thanks for everyones posts and comments. I've learned alot.

  11. #40
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    Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Yeah there is, and thats not what "free speech" is. Bonehead or not, I can promise you it wont help your cause by arguing street side. You can be right as rain, but it in the long run, you are far better off to do things the proper way and avoid yourself a lot more hassle than you are already in for.

    But, you do want you want, advice given on the internet is worth what you pay for it.

    You can "discuss" the merits/points of the law street side without any issue from the average LEO...if you do it in the right manner.
    I have discussed many issues with several different LEO street side...I have asked for clarification of the rules, asked them to explain it to me in the event that I misunderstood the rules and have even discussed the issue in such a manner that the LEO seen that he was in the wrong.


    Attitude is everything...

    For the record...I have been pulled over for 13 violations in 16 years of driving and have "respecfully discussed" the issues enough that I have "won my case" street side on 5 of the issues. The other 8, I was just plain wrong.....
    Walk softly and carry a big stick....but I find it hard to conceal a stick.

  12. #41
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    Yes, arguments and discussion are two different things. Asking for clarification is no big deal, if it goes to an argument, its best to bail at that point, an come to court.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texian View Post
    Best policy: Don't resist or tell the police they're wrong. File a written complaint later.
    I tend to agree, except for being left on the road defenseless. I'm going to go along with what an officer says (though I will politely ask for clarifications when confused) unless he's endangering my safety without cause. I work in a seedy area of a rather seedy town. If, say, I got stopped in that area and disarmed on the way to work, I would not be pleased about spending the day unarmed. Granted, my bosses carry, but they're inside 100 yards away while I'm outside interacting with some rough-around-the-edges folks, most of whom are completely stand-up citizens, yet...


    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Yeah there is, and thats not what "free speech" is. Bonehead or not, I can promise you it wont help your cause by arguing street side. You can be right as rain, but it in the long run, you are far better off to do things the proper way and avoid yourself a lot more hassle than you are already in for.
    Again, I would agree, most things aren't worth arguing over... and I'm not about to get a ticket because I want the officer to know that I'm an independent citizen (unlike a friend of mine, who has three tickets, two of which probably should have been warnings and might have been had he shown a little more patience with the officers -- i/e failing to yield brights to a patrol car on a side street at a stop sign waiting to turn onto the main highway). So while I try to grant an LEO as much leeway as proper, I'm probably not going to let him leave me disarmed without cause. That, I think, is worth arguing over.
    "War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams

  14. #43
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    "You're gonna confiscate my weapon?"

    Yeah, I don't argue with LEO's on the side of the road! If something is way out of line with an officer doing his job, I will always handle the complaint through the proper channels if I feel I was wronged that bad. (Which has never happened, nor do I expect it ever to happen in the future)

    However, if an officer intends on confiscating my legally possessed firearm while I have on my person, a valid ccw permit and then let me go on down the road because I have committed no crime, I'm afraid I would ask for a supervisor on scene with that one.

    Sixto or any other LEO's have any ideas I'm overlooking why an officer would want to confiscate a legally possessed firearm from a person who hasn't committed a crime other than a traffic related or vehicle registration offense?
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Sixto or any other LEO's have any ideas I'm overlooking why an officer would want to confiscate a legally possessed firearm from a person who hasn't committed a crime other than a traffic related or vehicle registration offense?
    Outside of what the LEO's guidance is in that state as far as law and guidelines are concerned (of which I am not familiar with). I'm really not seeing any reason.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  16. #45
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    Sounds like you handled yourself well, to bad the cops didn't!

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