Law Enforcement Vehicle Encounter.

This is a discussion on Law Enforcement Vehicle Encounter. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by semperfi.45 For me it's all about top pay when I retire. I started in 1998 at 28k which is tough in NJ. ...

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Thread: Law Enforcement Vehicle Encounter.

  1. #46
    Member Array Precision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi.45 View Post
    For me it's all about top pay when I retire. I started in 1998 at 28k which is tough in NJ. I made Sergeant in 8 years thanks to a rocking civil service score and veterans preference and I base now in the 6 figures.

    I think the most important thing for these civilian vs. LEO threads (which I hate) is that you (civilian) and I (Off duty LEO) must defer all authority to the uniformed officer on scene. If you think the Officer is wrong then request a road boss to come on scene. Every MV stop and contact in my agency is videotaped with audio and we vigorously prosecute those who file false complaints against us. On the other hand, we are also held very accountable for our actions; especially if they are outside the scope of our policy, procedure, rule, regulations and the law.
    personal pet peeve. When you stopped being a Marine, you became a civilian again. Cops -- LEO, what ever name you want to call them are civilians. Unless the person in question is accountable to the UMCJ, they are civilians. The proper term for a non-LEO would be "private citizen".

    Call it semantics if you want, but such terminology mishaps can lead to an us vs. them attitude (from the LEO side). Considering that many private citizens already perceive this, adding to the alienation (images of jackbooted thugs) is not a good idea (IMO). Cops are us and we are cops, citizens that is.

    rant over.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Sizlack View Post
    Quick question for any LEO's or well informed members, would it have been wise to ask to speak with a supervisor? At the point where he tried to confiscate my weapon my immediate inclination would be to involve a supervisor. Do PD's have any policies on citizens requesting to speak with supervisors, are there any obligations or could he have told you to take a hike?

    I would like to hear from a LEO what they suggest for your average citizen to do here...
    I do not know why the LEO was going to confiscate the OPs legally owned firearm. Revoked or suspended reg will get your vehicle towed depending on jurisdiction and dept policy. As a police officer I have dealt with legally armed motorists and never had them disarm because they were pleasant to me. No threating behavior from them and I am comfortable with them being armed.

    As for you question, I would not ask for a supervisor. Even though this LEO may have been a little shaky, it is basically saying, "You're a tool and I need your boss to handle this." I stopped a guy once for a V&T offense and he DEMANDED that my supervisor respond because he thought that he didn't deserve the summons. I couldn't help chuckling and told him that he needed to contest it in court if he felt that he didn't deserve the summons and that my supervisor would not be responding. He, ofcourse, went in to make a complaint that went nowhere because he was only complaining about getting a summons and not any improper actions on my part.
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I would have let him confiscate my truck, my car, my keys and my firearm...he can confiscate whatever he wants...as long as he doesn't take my cell phone. Because the second a police officer steals my firearm, I'm calling my attorney. I'll also want to know if his in-dash camera is working, or if it is conveniently 'out of service'.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  5. #49
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    Dash cams are not as common as the public seems to think, and the older ones are in fact POS's that break often.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    This thread is getting pretty long, I read it at about 2 pages and came back and read it again at now 5 or so.

    First don't get pulled over and don't get your registration revoked. Ok, that is almost a given in this scenario, or any other that involves being pulled over by LEO.

    Second, it probably isn't a good idea to get into an arguement with a LEO. Be respectful and curteous and that will go a long way. If the LEO is incorrect as he was in this case, simply stating that the code section as you understand it is that after the encounter is finished the LEO is required to return your legally concealed weapon and your permit, and that he should check into it. If he insists on keeping it what are you really going to do, he has his gun and yours at this point. If he is a good LEO he will check as he did this time and you will get your weapon back, no harm no foul. Everyone goes home happy.

    LEO's have jobs to do, I want to go home. I have been pulled over many years ago a couple of times, when I probably should have gone to jail, but I was respectful courteous, and we all went home happy. If I get pulled over again, hopefully I don't since it has been about 16 years now, I hope it turns out as well as it has in the past for everyone.
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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precision View Post
    personal pet peeve. When you stopped being a Marine, you became a civilian again. Cops -- LEO, what ever name you want to call them are civilians. Unless the person in question is accountable to the UMCJ, they are civilians. The proper term for a non-LEO would be "private citizen".

    Call it semantics if you want, but such terminology mishaps can lead to an us vs. them attitude (from the LEO side). Considering that many private citizens already perceive this, adding to the alienation (images of jackbooted thugs) is not a good idea (IMO). Cops are us and we are cops, citizens that is.

    rant over.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi.45 View Post
    I was #1 in the rule of three; there were at least two Sergeant vacancies, so as a veteran I locked the list and I had to be made. The only veterans preference for promotion is #1 can't be skipped if no other veterans are with you in the rule of three and veterans have preference in a tie score.

    PM me
    Ok. I understand now. Sixto, I have the option of buying my military time back but I don't see a point as my wife's job requires her to work longer time so I wouldn't leave NJ any sooner. Even without buying my military time(5 years) I could retire at 52 with 25 years.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precision View Post
    personal pet peeve. When you stopped being a Marine, you became a civilian again.
    I'll respond by this quote, "Once a Marine, always a Marine." I understand your point about not creating a us vs. them attitude but that attitude will still be there. Private citizens will still have the attitude that LEO's are different. And LEO's will still have the attitude that the general public doesn't understand what they go through as part of the job. OMO
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulle46 View Post
    I have the option of buying my military time back but I don't see a point as my wife's job requires her to work longer time so I wouldn't leave NJ any sooner. Even without buying my military time(5 years) I could retire at 52 with 25 years.
    You don't know what your status will be as you wind down at the end of your career. If you can buy back it's a guaranteed investment.
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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Yes, arguments and discussion are two different things. Asking for clarification is no big deal, if it goes to an argument, its best to bail at that point, an come to court.
    Seems that you are going to take the side of the LEO regardless. I work in a busy ER and have SEVERAL friends who are LEOs and work with some in the ER as well. I have the utmost respect for them and the job that they do, as they do me. I do not however feel that they are more entitled than me in given situations. This guy did nothing wrong, the whole registration thing was a SNAFU that was cleared up, and the possession of the firearm was legal. I would consider it to be the same if an officer came to my house and tried to confiscate my guns for no reason.

    When, I wonder, does a discussion become an argument. When the LEO feels so or when the "private citizen" does. If both parties involved follow the rules situations like this wouldn't occur.

    But when would that happen

    Chad
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  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by concealed1911 View Post
    Seems that you are going to take the side of the LEO regardless.
    You might want to do a little more reading and research here before you make such assumptions. I've taken no "sides" here, I've only offered another point of view for reference and kept the dialog somewhat balanced.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    AS far as no insurance they wood take your DL/REMOVE your plate toww within 24hr. Thats in FL.

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    You might want to do a little more reading and research here before you make such assumptions. I've taken no "sides" here, I've only offered another point of view for reference and kept the dialog somewhat balanced.
    I have read every post in this thread. I am not making any assumptions, just stating my opinion about what I have inferred from reading your (and all the other) posts. If what I said came across as being offensive I apologize, that was not my intention.

    chad
    Chad

    Violent crime happens every 22 seconds while police are only minutes away.

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by concealed1911 View Post
    I have read every post in this thread. I am not making any assumptions, just stating my opinion about what I have inferred from reading your (and all the other) posts. If what I said came across as being offensive I apologize, that was not my intention.

    chad
    I do side with a lot of the L.E.O positions, but I will also call one out quicker than anybody when they do wrong. If anybody hates a dirty cop its a good cop, we (good cops) have much more to loose by their actions than anybody else. Look around the forum, there have been a few that I've said "Thats a bad cop"

    It might seem that I come down on the L.E. side of things more, and I probably do, but here is why;

    Most stories posted here are not based in facts, but assumptions about the LEO's actions or intent. I simply try to explain why things happen the way they happen to an audience that largely has no experience in these things, so they have to take news articles or other perceptions at face value.
    People and the media love to criticize the actions of LEO's, and its to easy to fall into this here and other outlets. People tend to think what they see on T.V. about laws and LEO's as truths, and frankly its quite annoying to the real thing. I simply try to answer questions and dispel myths about L.E., rarely do I "take sides" unless its a clear cut case thats been distorted and misrepresented.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  16. #60
    Member Array concealed1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Most stories posted here are not based in facts, but assumptions about the LEO's actions or intent. I simply try to explain why things happen the way they happen to an audience that largely has no experience in these things, so they have to take news articles or other perceptions at face value.
    People and the media love to criticize the actions of LEO's, and its to easy to fall into this here and other outlets. People tend to think what they see on T.V. about laws and LEO's as truths, and frankly its quite annoying to the real thing. I simply try to answer questions and dispel myths about L.E., rarely do I "take sides" unless its a clear cut case thats been distorted and misrepresented.
    I agree with you 100%. Like I said, I have several friends, and work along side LEOs on a daily basis. Like I said, I didn't mean for you to take offense to my post, I guess I chose my words poorly and I again apologize.

    I do feel that LEO get a bad rap, and it is usually by someone they have just cited. "That stupid so-and-so. He just gave me a ticket. I mean come on I was only doing 10 mph over the speed limit. Why don't you go out and catch some real criminals."
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; July 24th, 2008 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Deleted 3 language workarounds.
    Chad

    Violent crime happens every 22 seconds while police are only minutes away.

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