July 14th, 2008 12:01 PM
2 BG Invade Home Unforced Entry - Ohio
Hey I am a new member to the forum but I was looking for some insight into the following scenario...
I am 20 years old and currently do not have concealed carry, noone in the house was armed when this situation occured.
We had a party the night of the incident and the back door must have been left unlocked. 2 BG entered the home through the unlocked back door so this would be apparently unforced entry. Their motive was to rob the place, not neccessarily to harm anyone, they ended up stealing our 42" plasma tv. However, before they stole the TV, they walked up to the 2nd story (3 story house) and shook the doorknob to each bedroom (our rooms lock).
They actually entered the bedroom of one of my roommates at which time he woke up, but could really not do anything. He ended up waking us all up after the BG's had walked back downstairs, but by this time they had already left with the TV.
My question is, assuming I had concealed carry and was armed, does anyone know what force is acceptable in Ohio. Through reading I see it is within the law to shoot intruders in many states but in Ohio it seems that you still must meet the requirements of self defense even when within your own home. What would be the best way to handle the situation assuming I was armed and had been woken to the 2 BG still in my home (maybe in the process of stealing a TV) My guess is the the BG were unarmed.
I live in a college house off campus in ohio with 4 roommates and we used to party frequently, in case anyone is wondering why we would not just lock the door I guess it was a mistake that used to happen.
Also would anything changed if the door were locked and they had to force entry?
July 14th, 2008 12:33 PM
July 14th, 2008 12:51 PM
The Columbus Dispatch : Castle doctrine: Ohio self-defense law will start in November
Castle Doctrine passed in Ohio less than a month ago, it sounds like this bill allows a victim to shoot any intruder within their home on sight.
July 14th, 2008 12:59 PM
I'm not sure about Ohio Laws but whether they forced their way in or not they illegally entered an occupied dwelling which is a higher felony than an uninhabited house,In some states the charge would be "burglary of an occupied dwelling"Here in Texas armed or not you would be legally justified to shoot.I did read where there is a "castle Doctrine law" trying to be passed in Ohio,I think one of the points being argued is giving people carte blanche ability to just shoot somebody in your home that isn't armed.I like Texas castle doctrine law basically it implies if ya don't wanta get shot don't break into homes or steal from somebodys yard after dark.
I just read his post apparently the article I read is outdated
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
July 14th, 2008 01:16 PM
BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, RELOAD BANG, BANG, ETC........you get the idea
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
July 14th, 2008 03:18 PM
Ohio recently passed castle doctrine, not sure if it's gone into effect yet. I'm slackin a little.
A word of advice, be extremely careful if you keep guns around campus, parties and guns don't mix, alcohol and guns don't mix, and the more people that know about the greater the risk of someone trying to steal it from your house.
That being said, what school, I'm an OSU alum myself. If you are looking for a place to buy a gun, go to Vances, over on Cleveland avenue.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
July 14th, 2008 03:28 PM
Nothing to add except to point out that a concealed carry permit is not necessary to own a firearm or to use it to protect yourself within the confines of your own home!
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
July 14th, 2008 03:30 PM
I don't believe one needs a license to be armed in the home in Ohio. Not sure if you can have a pistol at 20, though.
July 14th, 2008 03:38 PM
uninvited intruders? Use common sense, your gut instinct is just about always right.
Mine and Sundance's stance is, if your in my house I will shoot first and ask questions later! bang,bang shoot'em up, bang,bang blow you away! (Tesla circa 1989)
July 14th, 2008 03:42 PM
Mixed Martial Arts Record= 2-0.......Kyokushin Karate Record=5-0
USMC.....helping enemies of America die for their countries since 1775
July 14th, 2008 03:47 PM
It is important to remember that the thing you MUST tell the police is that you were afraid for your life and of your roommates lives. Don't make anything up, don't offer anything else, just say as calmly as you can that you feared for your life. You could have and should have shot them.
These folks will go until they finally kill someone completely defenseless.
July 14th, 2008 10:46 PM
This is good news and it goes into effect soon. 90 days after the Gov. signed it which was (I think) June 10th. So around Sep. 10 you no longer have a duty to retreat and would be perfectly legal in shooting the BGs as written in your OP. As somebody else stated here already, prior to this going into effect the rule of thumb for a "good" shoot is fear for your life or anothers life. this is still the measuring stick for using a firearm outside of your home. Remember those words if you ever do get a CCW permit "IN FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE OR ANOTHER PERSONS LIFE".
Originally Posted by otbdave
It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.
July 14th, 2008 11:49 PM
As others have pointed out, there is no CCW issue inside your residence. Also, at 20, you can legally own a shotgun. They make good home defense weapons.
As for the legality, make sure you track down and read, in full, Ohio's new Castle Doctrine and that you know exactly when it goes into effect. Barring something strange, though, what a Castle Doctrine says, in effect, is that anybody in your home unlawfully can be presumed to represent a lethal threat to the occupants. When it comes to self-defense law, lethal force can always be met with lethal force, because any citizen is always allowed to use equal force in responding to an attack.
To the best of my knowledge, there are no states where you have a duty to retreat in your own home (but I am sure someone will correct me if I assume too much), but without a codified Castle Doctrine you would generally not be allowed to use lethal force until you directly observed the lethal threat to yourself---that is, you see the gun or knife in the burglar's possession, or similar.
That's the big difference---with a Castle Doctrine in effect you don't have to wait to respond; the fact that he is there unlawfully means you can already assume he is a threat to your life and limb and react accordingly.
Now go find a nice shotgun!
“What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia
SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.
July 15th, 2008 12:05 AM
One thing everyone should be careful of is the "unlocked door". Read your state's castle doctrine law closely. Some of them require that the entry be forced, not merely uninvited. If you leave your door unlocked, and someone enters through it, you may have less protection under your state's laws. LOCK YOUR DOORS!
July 15th, 2008 12:05 AM
Okay, I'm gonna take a slightly different tack here than the rest.
So you live in a college house that was once known as a party house. I don't live in a party house, but I have friends that do. Random folks showing up at all hours is NOT uncommon in that situation.
You may be legally justified in shooting on sight, although in a house with three house mates after a party... I would ask you how you could possibly know it wasn't your housemate or a party guest staying past his welcome... or coming back for his cell phone. Given your scenario, I'd say that's just as likely. And while you might have legal cause, how great would it feel to tell the parents why you shot their kid?
If you plan to shoot on sight, I'd suggest (a) making that deadly clear to your housemates (b) LOCK YOUR DOORS and (c) maybe pause for a second if you have had a party that night.
Your legal justification may not also be an ethical justification.
I will be living in a situation this next year where my handgun will be locked in a safe, and will take me at least 10 seconds to access. I am NOT happy about that, but it is unavoidable at this point, so I sympathize with the frustration. I do live on the second floor, so hopefully I'll get a little advanced warning... but that possibly could be a fatal delay. Call me crazy, but I'll take that chance over the possibility of not having control of my firearm and an innocent dying because of my negligence.
"War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams
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