I dont think we've done this one yet
This is a discussion on I dont think we've done this one yet within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK so ive been thinking....
What if say you're a wheelchair bound individual, you live in one of those highrises where the county houses folks ...
July 18th, 2008 05:33 AM
I dont think we've done this one yet
OK so ive been thinking....
What if say you're a wheelchair bound individual, you live in one of those highrises where the county houses folks with similar problems.
One of your passons in life is deer hunting and as such you have several high powered rifles, say 30-06 or .308. Rifles you practice with religiously.
Your groups are sub MOA or better.
Now your sitting on your porch overlooking the parking lot of the building.
You see a man in the parking lot brandishing a machette, standing over a small child as in the scenario.
So the obvious attacker has already wounded said individual.
He is less then 100 yrds away from you with your conviniently loaded rifle.
Do you fire to stop the threat? Why or why not? What would the legal ramifacations be in your area?
At what point do you not care what the letter of the law says and shoot to save an innocent life?
It may be an out there scenario but it could definately happen as illustrated by the people in the previous post, standing watching this happening. .
I also have a few of these buildings in my home town and have always thought about how they are a great overwatch position.
July 18th, 2008 06:18 AM
If you feel as confident in your ability to make the shot as if you were 7 yds away with a handgun... take it... if you aren't, don't. Know your limits. Mine would suggest I not take the shot unless he were still. I'm quite above average with an open-sighted rifle, but my experience isn't with bobbing heads and folks around.
But, again, if I had the ability to take down the assailant and confidence in that ability, I think I would. Seems like reasonable defense of others, justifiable shoot. Even if it turns out to be legally problematic, I like to think that my respect for the sanctity of life outweighs my desire to avoid legal trouble.
"War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams
July 18th, 2008 08:44 AM
Wow! Great scenario! I would be hesitant to shoot at that distance. I am a pretty decent shot with a rifle too. But close to 100 yards with a moving target and innocents near by. Wow! Tough choice. I HOPE I never have to make that decision--Unless they are Zombies of course. Then it is Bang Bang Bang.
July 18th, 2008 08:53 AM
I thought I remembered beating this one to death pretty thoroughly not too long ago.
My search-fu is strong today.....
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
July 18th, 2008 09:05 AM
If I could be sure of the background for a thru and thru shot, I would take the shot. I've taken deer with an inline muzzle loader at over 100 yards and even farther with my 30-06 deer rifle, so I'm confident in my ability to hit what I shoot at.. As for legal issues, I would think than since the BG has already struck once with the blade, an innocent life is definitely in danger.
July 18th, 2008 09:45 AM
I don't worry about making the hit at 100 yards, that's close-range varmint hunting and the target is much larger than a gopher.
I do wonder just how sure of the 'who's who' and 'who did what' of the situation you are from 100 yards away.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
July 18th, 2008 10:14 AM
OBXNED, nailed it on the head. For those of us who are hunters 100 yards is nothing, but you darn wel better know exactly what is going on in this situation. There are so many what if's in life a person could dream up scenarios all day long but when it comes down to it we may react differently than what we type on a key board!! Just way to many variables in life.
When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
July 18th, 2008 10:20 AM
Things look very different from reality at 15 yds away, let alone 100. Toss in the angles and buildings you can't see the entire story and you certainly cant hear it... Its a bad idea to say the least.
Go back to daydreaming...
July 18th, 2008 10:25 AM
No matter what you have cartridge-wise loaded into that hi-power rifle, it's very likely that projectile is going farther than the initial target, and it's also likely the angle will change after hitting that target. I also take it from your original post that you'll be shooting from a higher position than the intended target. Have you practiced this? Even within the distance of 100yds-trajectory is not the same as shooting on the same plane (your PBR may be off a little). You alone decide the risks, just take innocents into account. I don't think anyone could honestly say what they would do in the situation and be serious about it. Me? I won't even touch it. I will say this though--I don't think you'd be making the front page or local news as a community hero--not the first day anyway.
July 18th, 2008 03:01 PM
Yep, I posted that one. But it's still a good topic. I'd really love to see this debated in a law school. I think the moral question is a lot simpler than the legal question. Does the distance make the action any less an act of defending someone else from a potentially deadly attack? (Assume that the person making the choice to act has seen everything that one might learn from within handgun distance.)
Originally Posted by David in FL
July 18th, 2008 03:12 PM
The shot is not as much of a problem as are you sure of what is happening. From 100 yards it may be tough to really know what is going on especially in a parking lot full of cars. What if the fellow standing of the kid was trying to protect himself? What if there were several other kids that were beating up on the man that you couldn't see? What if the kid had attacked the man with the machette and the man was trying to take it from him?
There is a thread about a father of 12 getting shot by the police who was defending his family. Before interjecting yourself into anything be sure who is the BG.
July 18th, 2008 03:55 PM
Nope...call 911 and be a witness using the scope. You are not in danger...it goes to what a reasonable person would do.
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
July 18th, 2008 04:32 PM
UMMM-- A acronym comes to mind.
Not to mean your common Cover YOUR backside but rather
"CAN YOU ARTICULATE".
As in do you actually know whats going on. You sure its not a mob assault? This guy is defending himself? Undercover Police Officer? What happens to you after the shooting?
Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!
Assistant Instructor @ http://www.green-ops.com/
Located in the Washington D.C. Metropolitan Area "Why should your training be any less special?"
July 18th, 2008 04:52 PM
well the guy is wielding a machete at a child so i don't think its any of those things.
I'm more curious if its the range that would make some of us not shoot to defend. Say for a fact you know that the guy is attacking an innocent person, most of us if we are standing right there would not hesitate to stop the threat.
so for this scenario say its a neighborhood crazy that you know for sure is attacking a innocent child, as in the scenario i cited.
July 18th, 2008 06:34 PM
If it is the neighborhood crazy why haven't you already shot him? You give several scenarios but just be sure which one is the BG before you pull the trigger.
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