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His word against yours

This is a discussion on His word against yours within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Several problems with this whole thing. First, if you didn't do anything wrong, why lie? Second, you are ASSUMING that there are no other witnesses ...

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Thread: His word against yours

  1. #16
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    Several problems with this whole thing. First, if you didn't do anything wrong, why lie? Second, you are ASSUMING that there are no other witnesses or video surveillance? Not a good idea.

    Third, it would be his word against yours which means that there wouldn't be much of a case against you. Believing that you would be filed on in this situation, based on one dirt bags word is, in my opinion unrealistic. We can hardly get the Prosecutors here to file on people who we have evidence against, plus a written confession. Short of a written confession on your part, agreeing with the bad guy that you were the aggressor,I don't see you being charged with this, much less convicted.

    Lying is never a good idea. Because if you said, no it wasn't me, and then the police ask to see your handgun that the dirt bag described, your caught in a lie. Now your credibility in this case is zero and the cops/prosecutor/jury are all going to believe that you were trying to cover up for something that you did wrong.

    I realize that this scenario is based on a real story, but just like Holly Wood, the real story is, in my opinion never told, as it actually happened.

    I don't want to be to critical here, but this doesn't take years of police experience to see the right answer on this one. At the very least, not answering any questions, or worse yet lying to the cops would ruin your reputation with the Police Department, if it was a small enough community. Then if you ever had to use force in the future, your name is already mud.


  2. #17
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    Well lets just say, that after your experience with the LEO who shows up to question you... I suppose you won't be forgetting to call 911 the next time.

    There is no real answer to your scenario!

    Everyone always comes up with these strange scenarios that right off the bat either places you in a "catch-22" or limits you in some strange way or forces you to do something you ordinarily wouldn't do.

    Realistically, a mugger gets a gun shoved in his face by the victim and doesn't get shot? Is allowed to run away? He's gonna do just that! He's gonna high tail it outta there and not look back! He isn't gonna stick around to watch what car you get into... squint his eyes or pull out the binoculars to get a copy of your license plate (in the dark of night) and then call 911 and willingly bring the cops to him... a stick up artist they are probably looking for anyways, just to report that you waved a gun at him?

    Laughable on it's surface!

    Bottom line is this... It IS your word against his.... What happens is all going to depend on how you handle yourself, what kind of mood the LEO is in, what the prosecutor wants to do and what their opinion of the would be robber (who "ratted you out" for trying to mug him) is. Did they buy his story or didn't they.

    That's really what it comes down to.

    So, outrageous scenario aside.... You pull your gun on someone... Call the cops and report it!

    Your little "mistake" could theoretically jam you up a bit and cost you some coin getting it straightened out!

    JMHO based on 30 years of dealing with street people and how they operate... YMMV
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  3. #18
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    I'm an old man here...perhaps my approach is a bit different. If a man walks up to me (we're in a parking lot or in some dim lit area) and ignores my plea to stay back after an 'interview'...he pull a knife and demands my wallet?
    I will immediately be calling 911 to report the 'defensive shooting' that just took place...
    Hopefully, I'm still alive and he isn't...
    I want no trouble. I don't look for trouble. I've been around enough to know that my reaction, when a weapon is displayed against me, must be quick and violent.
    I will move quickly to stop any threat made against me or mine.
    End of story.


    Stay armed...stand your ground...stay safe!
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  4. #19
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    ret... I'm with you on that one!

    Like I said... the robber (given that scenario) would be amazed that he wasn't shot immediately! He ain't gonna hang around afterwards.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    If your firearm has to be presented for any reason, call the police.
    If you forgot you cell phone at home, call at the safest public place as quickly as possiable.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

  6. #21
    Member Array Coldwarvet's Avatar
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    I don't know about this hypothetical situation. I just remember what Massad Ayoob wrote about such scenarios in one of his books. I think if I was pretty sure no third party had witnessed what went down, I'd have practiced "the better part of valor."

    The BG almost certainly isn't going to hang around to get a tag number, nor expose himself to LEO scrutiny by making a formal report of somebody "brandishing." I think I'd leave the LEOs out of it.

    Now, if it there were definitely witnesses, especially the type who might report it (soccer moms, etc.) I'd make a formal report.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I'm an old man here...perhaps my approach is a bit different. If a man walks up to me (we're in a parking lot or in some dim lit area) and ignores my plea to stay back after an 'interview'...he pull a knife and demands my wallet?
    I will immediately be calling 911 to report the 'defensive shooting' that just took place...
    Best response so far. My thoughts exactly threaten my life with a deadly weapon requires I explain the bullet holes in my assailant.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    With a bad guy armed with a knife that close, there is no doubt that I would call 911, but it would be after removing the threat.

    Actually, even in a situation where merely letting the BG know by voice or posture that I was not going to be a victim, I would call 911. Mr. Scumsucker is just going to move on and select another person to be his victim. How would you feel if you didn't make that call and someone ended up dead?
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  9. #24
    Member Array Bonesnofoa's Avatar
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    I might point out to the officers (or DA) that i have a CPL have no felonies, no history of mental disorders, and no drug convictions. But that the man who called in the bogus 911 most likely does have an arrest record.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Well golly gee! I would just show the LEO my concealed permit and he would know that I am the good guy and the other guy is a lying piece of

    But seriously now, if it has gone this far it's lawyer time.

    ETA: Just because they guy is a dirt bag does not mean they are going to ignore his complaint. His having a record does not release the police or the prosecutors from their responsibility to act on his complaint.
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  11. #26
    Member Array chuck brick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    It's not just the BG you need to worry about. There are always prying eyes who may not have seen his knife and called the law. Now you're in real trouble.
    Although calling 9-1-1 first would be best, of course, I'd still hope that some shred of logic would prevail. For example, take the "observers:" They panic and tell the cops that they saw a man approach you, you both spoke briefly, the other man approached closer, you pulled a gun, he ran away, you "retired" your weapon and left quickly. Even to a total idiot, that sounds just like your version of the story, but without the conversation. The facts that you didn't fire, that you didn't take the other's assets, that HE approached YOU, that although you (by having a firearm) had the advantage but chose only to retreat (e.g., let him leave without shooting him in the back), etc., along with the fact that you've already been shown to be an upstanding citizen (background check for CC permit), should carry a lot of weight in your favor.
    What are the odds that the perpetrator would call the cops? If it were his first attempt at crime, he'd likely be too scared to face another biped for days. If not, he may be known to the police and won't choose to spend any "elective" time with them if avoidable. If not known to them yet, he won't want to be any sooner than necessary.
    I'm not minimizing the scenario or its possible complications in the least, I'm simply looking at this from a common sense perspective and what a "reasonable person" would consider pertinent.
    Then again, I live in Texas - not Kalifornicate, or New Yuck, or New Jerkey, or other gun-hateful state, so YMMV.
    (Teasing, guys; we're all Americans and on the same page, or you wouldn't be here for me to poke fun with. )


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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    And that is kind of the point of this scenario. You should have called 9-1-1 but you didn't. We all make mistakes and that is one of the mistakes that was made.
    Not trying to be rude, but if that's the case, one will pay the "stupid tax."

    This is no different than leaving your hot Glock lying where a 2yo can pick it up.

    The BG almost certainly isn't going to hang around to get a tag number, nor expose himself to LEO scrutiny by making a formal report of somebody "brandishing." I think I'd leave the LEOs out of it.
    Very wishful, very wrong.

  13. #28
    Member Array Coldwarvet's Avatar
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    Well, there seem to be two schools of thought on this, and that's fine. I'll stay with my take for now, which is that discretion should ALWAYS be practiced when it comes to potential LEO involvement. Don't involve them unless needed, in other words. Is a BG going to pull his knife on someone else? Yep. Is it too late to catch the guy now. Probably. Should you have just blown him away, as some here with much bravado have suggested? Read Ayoob, folks.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    I can't imagine forgeting to call 911 after he ran off.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldwarvet View Post
    Don't involve them unless needed, in other words.
    1) Unless the jurisdiction is NPE, they are unlikely to send an officer to take your statement(ie, no significant time investment for you.) It may take 5 minutes to answer Dispatch's questions.

    2) To be frank, if you are not of homie's socio-economic-racial demographic, odds are (IME) about 20% that homie will either call it in("Crazy white-/home-/Mexican-/etc.,boy waved a gun at me!"), or, if he's busted in his next assault, give a good descrip of you and say that he thought that the person he assaulted was your friend.

    If this sounds crazy, you need to get out more. Clashing with the "victim-class" will perpetuate their "victimization."

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