July 22nd, 2008 12:18 PM
How do i handle the threat of an upcoming attack?
Here is the situation. A man who works for/represents a group of weathy men here in town came to me night before last to tell me "If I don't drop my problem with his employers I'm going to get hurt" Now I'm not one to cause problems, but I'm also not the kind of guy who will stay silent when I see someone I care for being mistreated. What has happened is I've seen these men being horribly inappropriate several times with someone I care for, so I step up and shut these guys down. I've never threatened them nor even taken a posture like I planned to be violent. As is usually the case with bullies, if someone speaks up they generally will back down. But now they have either paid or convinced some people to come after me. I don't have anything I can go to the police with and I don't want to shoot a couple of guys just because they are trying to throw me a beat-down. I also know that a few guys attacking me with just their fists could easily result in my death. Any suggestions?
July 22nd, 2008 12:25 PM
File a report/complaint now! If 'something' does happen, you'll have a report on file already. As for the disparity of force......if you fear for your life of the life of someone you care about, and danger/serious bodily harm is apparent, then do what you have to do.
It may just be as simple as bullying, but you should take no chances. Take every proper step now. If an actual crime was commited, then take care of business, now.
whatever you do, don't just stand by and hope nothing happens.
This is just my advice, nothing more.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
July 22nd, 2008 12:28 PM
Notify local law enforcement of the problem, and if you are attacked do what you have to do to survive.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
July 22nd, 2008 02:05 PM
People who carry a gun need to avoid petty disputes as much as possible. Period! Especially if no one asked for your help or assistance in the matter! Maybe you shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.
Originally Posted by ScoobaSteve
With that said... the genie is already out of the bottle on this one, so...
If I don't drop my problem with his employers, I'm going to get hurt! Is a physical threat!
You should make a report and give a statement to the police! Then I would tread carefully around those people in the future.
They obviously felt you stuck your nose in where it didn't belong and now you have pissed some people off.
You absolutely have the right to defend yourself at all times and certainly if you feel your life is in immediate and unavoidable danger, you have the right to defend yourself.
However... If it can be seen or shown in any way that you instigated, encouraged, or was the cause of making these people mad at you in the first place... A prosecutor could attempt to make an example of you by having you share in some of the culpability in creating the situation that degraded into someone being shot or killed.
This is a total grey area and kind of leaves you out there hanging in the breeze. I could see an involuntary manslaughter charge if the prosecutor is an anti-ccw. Also the political wind plays a role as to what the prosecutor may or may not do.
At the very least you need to shore up your position by filing a complaint or report for the threat made against you. As soon as possible! The longer you wait, the less weight it will have should something bad come down.
Prosecutors like nice clean black and white clear cut cases of self defense... Something they can show the public that nothing fishy was going on and you had absolutely no choice. This is best accomplished when you are minding your own business and some thug you don't even know tries to hold you up on the street at gunpoint. The actors are clear and everything is cut and dry. This is what prosecutors feel most people need a ccw permit for. Protection from being a victim of random violent crime on the street.
You muddy the waters by having an ongoing personal dispute over work place issues or getting involved in someone elses dispute. Threats going back and forth with no police report made prior to the shooting, can really change how the prosecutor looks at the case. May not go after you for murder... but manslaughter is always an option he has to charge you with.
You kind of have yourself in the middle of a small mess that could have serious and life changing consequences for you in the near future. Be careful how you proceed.
When you find yourself walking on egg shells... Don't Hop!
JMHO... I am not an attorney and YMMV on this one.
Good luck and keep us posted.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
July 22nd, 2008 02:11 PM
Carry a small voice activated recorder on your person.Documentation and make complaints on record to Police.Don't get caught off guard.The problem with saying you wouldn't want to shoot someone over giving you a beatdown is that if you change your mind about that mindset after the beatdown starts, the beatdown could be much worse than you anticipated.You have the right to defend yourself I'd suggest you rethink your willingness to suffer a beating.
July 22nd, 2008 02:26 PM
Getting the threat documented with you local PD/SO is solid advice. Seek a restraining order against the "employers" and the thug, providing you know the identities of all concerned.
Get somthing bigger than the .380 you carry. Perhaps something in .40 or .45
If they talk tough and dot your eye, maybe you can't do much about it but if they knock you down and put boots to you, draw your weapon and stop the threat. A two on one beat down is disparity of force. If they continue the attack once you are down displays ferocity and a wanton disregard for your well-being that rises to the level of deadly force.
Repeated blows to the head, by one or more persons, that make you feel you are immediatly about to lose consciousness while you attempt to disengage and/or verbally state you do not wish to fight also reasonably places one in fear of life and limb.
Human nature being as it is, you may be tempted to get a black ski mask and go Kiser Soze on their but's, pre-emptivly like. That would be a crime, as the threat is not imminent so I don't advise it.
Keep your head on a swivel and watch 6.-Jay
July 22nd, 2008 02:42 PM
First of all take the above advice and file a police report, it will help.
Next buy some good CS in a foam or stream, that way you can aim at specific targets. Anyone who carries a lethal form of self defense should have other options at their disposal. Not every situation can be solved legally by using a gun.
Last, watch your back! Good luck
CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!
FOUR BOXES KEEP US FREE:  SOAP  BALLOT  JURY  AMMO!
July 22nd, 2008 03:22 PM
Wow, lots to respond to. I hate that the situation exists. I did have my part in causing it. I could have kept my mouth shut and watch 6-8 men verbally harass a woman friend of mine. I was quiet until she started to cry. I probably could have picked a more respectful way to address them, but I didn't. There is always a better way to handle a conflict....which of course comes to you after the event :) I would prefer never seeing that crowd, but it's a small town. I filed a police report and asked that no action be taken, that I just wanted it documented. I don't need them going to these people and escalating the situation. I plan on doing all i can to cool this down. I'm actually starting to shop for a .40 right now. I'm looking for something compact but comfortable in large hands. I'm sure there are a ton of threads on the subject. I was planning on hitting the police supply for cs foam in a bit.
July 22nd, 2008 04:38 PM
So when are you going to file a complaint?
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
July 22nd, 2008 04:43 PM
When possible...ALWAYS...make a 'paper trail'.
Stay armed...watch your back...stay armed!
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member[/B]
July 22nd, 2008 04:44 PM
It was done about 3 hours ago.
July 22nd, 2008 05:04 PM
If you stand by while 6 men harass a woman to tears and say nothing,better find out where you left your cohones,any man who won't come to somebodys defense in that situation I really have no respect for and threatening you to back off or your gonna get hurt is a terroristic threat,Also if somebody attacks you even with their fists a blow in the right place could kill you you hit me or threaten me and I will draw the next move is i'm calling 911 you wanta advance on me against a drawn gun and the event will be recorded me ordering you to stay where you are don't move and anything else that happens
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
July 22nd, 2008 06:12 PM
So, who are these guys? Are they criminals? Are they known to be violent?
Maybe there are some other members here from Roswell, NM?
July 22nd, 2008 06:16 PM
Sounds like you did the right thing. You know these people better than us. By that I mean, you are better able to determine whether they might be serious or just trying to get back at you verbally. Filing a police was the wright thing to do. Just be cautions what you say to them. You don't want to say something like, "I'm not really scared of theses guys, because I carry a gun and know how to shoot." You would be better off saying. If you have to use force on these guys latter, it would be harder to articulate that you were afraid for your life, when you already have it on paper that you were not.
July 22nd, 2008 06:28 PM
I doubt they are criminals, they are a bunch of rich dairymen. I couldn't tell you whether or not they are violent for sure, but I see no reason to take their threat any less than seriously. They moved into the area about 15 years ago and due to govt subsidies have made a large amount of money. Somewhere along the line they got the idea that being rich allows you to mistreat anyone you see as less than you. Not uncommon in a person who acquires a large amount of wealth quickly. They actually generally had been respectful to me in the past. We have been in the petroleum business here for 4 generations, so they percieve me as being socially equal to them. I guess they didn't like being shut down in front of the people they like to berate. I was pretty suprised to recieve a threat of physical violence. I suppose talking down to 6 or 8 guys with fat wallets and even fatter egos in a public place where they like to gather wasn't the best course of action.....but it worked :)
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