Aiding an Officer - What would you do?

[NCHornet]

Okay, let me throw in a hypothetical here... and I can certainly see where this could happen...

The officer is on top of the guy he has in custody. He's trying to avoid confrontations with others while he keeps the BG under control. For some reason, he did NOT have handcuffs.

So let's say that while I was intervening here, and things had NOT gone well, say three or four come at me with a knife or a stick, etc. etc. - the officer is pre-occupied with his keeping control of BG #1, what THEN? I'm not much of a "fist-to-cuffs" fighter, and I'll openly admit that, so 4-5 guys on me would no doubt whoop my backside and perhaps attempt to take my gun or worse?

At that time you are defending your life from immediate danger and the same reaction is called for as if the officer wasn't there, time to engage force with force.
I have had to assist two female officers before, this was before I had my CCW permit and when I lived in the Republic of Kalifornia. I was about 19 years old and I was driving down a residentail street in a not so great part of town. In a front yard I see a very large man walking around the front yard with a female officer hanging off his neck trying for a choke hold I guess??? The other female officer ( that's right two female officers in the same cruiser) was around the guys leg hitting him with a sap stick, looking back it was quite comical, the one around his neck had already pepper sprayed the guy but to no affect, he was literally dragging the two across the yard. I had my work buddy with me, we both agreed we needed to help. I stood back at the edge of the yard a good 20 feet and asked the officer if they would like some help. They both screamed back "Yes!!!!" My buddy and I were both good size young men at the time, and we tackled the guy like we were playing football. Hey!!! don't laugh, this was before I received any formal training, it got the guy down!!! Once he went down my buddy put his knee in the guys face while I helped the officer get his arms back to cuff him. It was all over in a couple minutes. They thanked us over and over again and we left. I suppose they must have gotten my license plate number because about 4-5 days later we received a thank you card from both officers in the mail. If you are going to intercede on a situation like this you better make darn sure the officer knows you are there trying to help, or you may end up recovering in the ICU!!!

NCH

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[bae]

This sort of thing is why I keep a rifle in the car...

[NCHornet]

Rifle, Handgun, Baseball bat, it doesn't matter you better darn sure make sure that cop knows you are there to help and not another attacker or things could go wrong very quick. At least with a handgun it can be concealed until you convey this to the officer, if he simply see a guy with a rifle approaching he may shoot you before you have time to speak a word!! Most LEO's don't like civilians interveining unless they are really in a desperate situation.
NCH

[IfIhaveto]

Congratulations Sir!!!
Job well done!!! I'm sorry you had to go through the personal issues along with your decision to help...Ask your wife to reverse the situation and imagine if it was her surrounded? Awesome Job and again Sorry hope all is well with the wife now...

[RevDoug]

Well done, bgriffin.
I certainly can't add anything to the counsel already given, but thanks for sharing and giving us a chance to put ourselves in your shoes. If even 10 percent of our fellow citizens would become willing to make the decision you made, our nation would reverse course in a heartbeat!

[chiboxer]

I once had a citizen assist me with an arrest. Generally I would frown on that, but I was attempting to arrest this guy and four of his friends surrounded me, I called for backup but it took them about two minutes to get there. That doesn't sound like a long time, but it is an eternity when you are outnumbered five to one. The citizen was a bouncer at a local night club, who saw my predicament and backed the other guys off so I could effect the arrest. I was very grateful. In my state, if you are assisting an LEO, you are temporarily acting under his aegis and have all of the powers that he has. This doesn't happen often, but I am assuming it is remnant of the Old West days, when the sheriff had to round up a posse.

[BikerRN]

bgriffin70:

You done good sir, and THANK YOU.

I was not the officer in that situation you describe, but I have needed "assistance" a time or two in my life.

As to why the officer didn't draw his weapon is beyond me, as it was clearly indicated from what you described. This was clearly a "Disparity of Force" situation.

I'm glad for you that things turned out as well as they did. You probably wouldn't be here to read this if you had needed your gun and didn't have it on you. I would only suggest that you find a gun you can carry while rafting, Glock seems to come to mind.

In my book there is a time to verbalize and a time to shoot. I won't be doing both at the same time and I'm getting too old to be fighting with a bunch of young punks.

Biker

[Duisburg]

I would stand off and just be a good witness, using my cellphone to take pictures and videos of it all. If they then turned on me I would then turn to my sidearm...

[tns0038]

You did very good by asking "need any help officer?" and waiting to see what he answered, and you did real good in stepping in to help when he said SURE.

Never draw your sidearm unless the office has, and has requested your help. You don't want him to
think your another BG.

The officer kept a cool head and did not escalate the situation by drawing his weapon.

Different states have different laws and procedures'. If I where you I'd look up your states policies regarding civilians with a CCL assisting officers.

[farronwolf]

I would stand off and just be a good witness, using my cellphone to take pictures and videos of it all. If they then turned on me I would then turn to my sidearm...

Are you saying that you would let it go so far as to let the mob attack the officer and just take pictures and video, even if they were beating the snot out of or possibly killing the officer?

Only getting involved if the group then turned on you. Am I reading this correctly?

[BikerRN]

The officer kept a cool head and did not escalate the situation by drawing his weapon.

Being a Federal LEO myself I have a suspicion why the officer didn't draw his weapon. Let me just say, the Feds would rather you be Killed In The Line Of Duty than to actually have you use appropriate tactics.

It will get good people killed.

Biker

[NCHornet]

I would stand off and just be a good witness, using my cellphone to take pictures and videos of it all. If they then turned on me I would then turn to my sidearm...

I too don't understand your reply. I know there are many folks out there, sad to say, probably the majority would do such a thing, but I couldn't sleep at night knwing the officer was injured or killed and I stood by and watched!! How do you explain that to your children? I understand my first responsibility is to my immediate family, but after I know they are safe, I am the type that is going to help others.
I watched a show the other night where hidden cameras recorded amazing footage. Two of the recording were something similar to this, one was a 90 year old man that was mugged in broad daylight and a group of 4 or 5 stood about 25 feet away and did nothing as this thug struck this man over and over in the head and didn't stop until the old man was on the ground. He then took his keys and drove off in his car while the others watched.
The other one a man was hit by a car crossing the street, he went flying into the air and landed on the ground, again in broad daylight, and nobody came to this mans aid. They simply kept walking down the street on both sides looking at this man laying in the street. This one took place in NYC, not sure where the first one took place.
It is a sad day in which we live. I also agree with Biker RN, it bothers me that the officer didn't draw his service weapon. If it happened as described the fact that he didn't draw is a negative not a positive. Could it be he didn't have the perp cuffed yet and didn't want to break his hold on him? This would still be foolish to let these other thugs close in on you. Better to disengage perp, gain control of the situation and then re engage bad guy. Again just glad everyone went home safe.

NCH

[chiboxer]

Being a Federal LEO myself I have a suspicion why the officer didn't draw his weapon. Let me just say, the Feds would rather you be Killed In The Line Of Duty than to actually have you use appropriate tactics.

It will get good people killed.

Biker

BikerRN you are right on the money on this one. Many times I feel my agency would rather have me killed than have to deal with the hassle of me shooting someone, the investigation, DA's inquest, civil suit, etc. I believe there are many officers who have been killed because they waited too long to use deadly force. The preceding line of thought, foremost in their minds.

[Duisburg]

I too don't understand your reply.

I understand my first responsibility is to my immediate family, but after I know they are safe, I am the type that is going to help others.

Again just glad everyone went home safe.

NCH

Well allow me to clarify it

The Cop was armed too (presuming I was there carrying) and knew what he could and couldn't do. There for IF he wasn't going to defend himself against an armed group when he could have then why should I jump in and add to the chaos? My instructor advised me to just be a good witness in these types of cases and it makes too much sense to me.

Now if we are talking about an unarmed civilian being attacked then I am going to react, that is for sure, but how I will react and with what depends on the situation.

I would sleep well at night and live with myself as well.

[ccw9mm]

I too don't understand your reply. I know there are many folks out there, sad to say, probably the majority would do such a thing, but I couldn't sleep at night knwing the officer was injured or killed and I stood by and watched!

The LEO in question didn't even draw his own firearm. I'm assuming he knew the crowd was assembling. Who's saying he was at immediate risk of death or dismemberment?