Aiding an Officer - What would you do? - Page 5

Aiding an Officer - What would you do?

This is a discussion on Aiding an Officer - What would you do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you diagree with a officers action you take it up with his C.O. or get a lawyer, you don't pick up a weapon and ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    If you diagree with a officers action you take it up with his C.O. or get a lawyer, you don't pick up a weapon and approach him, this is being stupid and deserving of getting a world of hurt put on you!!
    Bottom line being drunk is public is illegal, if you don't like this law than go through the proper channels to change the law ( Good luck) the officer is simply doing his job of enforcing the law, he didn't make the law, his job is to enforce it, so arguing, complaining etc..... is a useless waist of time. The officer can't pick and choose which laws he enforces, he is required to enforce all of them. I can't even believe I am explaing this.
    As for your scenario, "I don't go to Mexico" and if I found myself in a foreign country and would learn and follow the laws of that country, and at no time would I take up a weapon against a officer, as I said this is plain stupid!!

    NCH
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  2. #62
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    I don't see how anyone can say they would drive away. I am a woman and having been a Paramedic in a large Metro area.....I wouldn't have driven off.
    I don't think I could sleep at night showing that kind of cowardice .....yeah....I know...."I had my family with me." Whatever lets you sleep at night, but how could you expect help if needed, if you make excuses for not helping others....especially a officer. You did a great job helping the officer......good for you. Sleep well, you deserve it.
    Thank you. So glad a lady said that. There is no justification for cowardice. Any excuse for not doing the right thing based upon selfish self centered fear of being harmed physically, civilly, legally or otherwise is cowardice. I think it is shameful that so many use their wives as an excuse. bgriffin70 you could not have done any better, perfect. Well you could have kept your gun on you other than that. You
    A) Assessed the problem,
    B) Identified yourself
    C) Intervened appropriately and deescalated the situation
    You and yours are welcome at my dinner table any day. Do not let anyone ever demean what you did. I suspect that you did not have any choice but than honorable men rarely do. You did the only thing you could, the right thing

    For my part I would hope that I conduct myself as well in the same scenario. I would like to think so but than there is that saying no man is sure of his courage until his death. My family would expect nothing less of me. My wife knows who I am, it's why she agreed to marry me. In that scenario I have no doubt my wife would handle herself well enough that any illegal that approached her would wish they had decided deal with my two oars and not her .380. If I drove away from a scene like that there is no doubt in my mind she would immediately offer me some of her panties to wear and never ever let me live it down.

    bgriffin70 Thank You.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  3. #63
    Member Array wedoada's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Duisburg
    I would stand off and just be a good witness, using my cellphone to take pictures and videos of it all. If they then turned on me I would then turn to my sidearm...
    I've been a civlian employee in Law Enforcement for 25+ years and have found myself in the position of being the only help for one of my Officers several times. I am also a person with a disabiliy. I never once thought of just standing by and not helping. True I've gotten injured in the process a couple of times but I heal and both my Officers and I went home to our families.

    I agree with so many posters here that LEO's put their lives on the line for me and my family everyday and I could NEVER live with myself if I simply watched or left the scene to learn later that the Officer had been injured or killed.

    It is long past time that we "Citizens" stand up, or in my case "roll up" for ourselves, our families and our communities.

    Just my rant...rolling down the ramp off my soapbox now.

    **Edit - Oh and bgriffin70...well done and thank you. If it were one of my guys I'd have wanted someone like you to help.
    Last edited by wedoada; August 8th, 2008 at 04:14 PM. Reason: addition
    ~ Randy W. -- G27 & LCP

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  4. #64
    Member Array bgriffin70's Avatar
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    Read the original post, folks. There were drugs and alcohol involved, and this was in a WA State Park, so NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED! Signs clearly note that all around the park. This is popular whitewater rafting area and picnic park, where obviously, drugs and alcohol are NOT welcome! The officer was doing his job in making the arrest for illegal substances in the park. In addition, the Hispanics were PURCHASING from this individual when the small riot began to unfold.

  5. #65
    Member Array chiboxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    No disrespect to the many police officers on this forum, but I would have done precisely nothing to aid the officer. I may not have even called 911.

    I do not believe it is a legitimate function of the police to arrest people who, even though perhaps intoxicated, are harming no one. Now, I'm sure I don't know the whole story, but unless the intoxicated man was being aggressive towards another person, the police officer was putting his nose where it doesn't belong. If the guy was ONLY intoxicated, he was well within his rights to resist aggression on the part of the police officer.

    Sorry.

    Mel
    Ummm....dude. The case law does not back you on this. Even if the original arrest by the officer is illegal or improper a citizen or a citizen and 20 of his buddies don't have the right to resist as you say "aggression" by the police. Enforcing a law you don't agree with is not aggression by me. You don't get to pick and choose when you will obey the legal, lawful commands of a LEO. He is a representative of the government, as such you are not entitled to resist him or you will go to jail, prison, or the hospital.
    If you don't agree with the law or the LEO actions you can make a complaint, sue, etc. What you cannot do is physically resist the LEO. We don't get paid to take butt-whippings just for doing our job, thinking like this is what makes my job dangerous.
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

  6. #66
    Member Array bgriffin70's Avatar
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    I still don't see the debate here over the officer making an arrest.

    THIS IS A WASHINGTON STATE PARK. SIGNS POSTED EVERYWHERE, NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED !!!!! THERE WERE DRUGS, ALCOHOL, DRUGS BEING SOLD, and when the young man (LEO) attempted to apprehend one of them, the BG resisted, swung at him, attempted to flee, and got his face nailed with pepper spray. While that was going on, about ten plus other Hispanic males came running at the officer, some with sticks, motorcycle helmets, throwing rocks, all yelling at the officer to let their "buddy" go. When I observed this, this is when I got out of my vehicle and asked the officer if he would like any assistance and then all I did was try to keep the wolves at bay. Once they heard sirens en route, those wolves quickly sped off. The end.

    So what is there to debate?

  7. #67
    Member Array JimThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgriffin70 View Post
    I still don't see the debate here over the officer making an arrest.

    THIS IS A WASHINGTON STATE PARK. SIGNS POSTED EVERYWHERE, NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED !!!!! THERE WERE DRUGS, ALCOHOL, DRUGS BEING SOLD, and when the young man (LEO) attempted to apprehend one of them, the BG resisted, swung at him, attempted to flee, and got his face nailed with pepper spray. While that was going on, about ten plus other Hispanic males came running at the officer, some with sticks, motorcycle helmets, throwing rocks, all yelling at the officer to let their "buddy" go. When I observed this, this is when I got out of my vehicle and asked the officer if he would like any assistance and then all I did was try to keep the wolves at bay. Once they heard sirens en route, those wolves quickly sped off. The end.

    So what is there to debate?
    The line of thought looks simple to me. People don't view all laws and crimes the same. If a policeman wants to risk his life over apprehending a serial killer or someone who is sure to create another victim, I see it differently than a policeman risking his life over apprehending a jaywalker.

    If I have that information, you can expect it to influence my willingness to put my own life at risk.

    I can assure you that LEOs (and those who pay them) make those distinctions. It's not crazy to think citizens will also make those distinctions on their own, or have different conclusions than someone who signed up for a law enforcement job.

    That's obviously different than watching a policeman get hammered. But if he has a choice to retreat and does not, it doesn't mean I'm obligated to put my life at risk.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiboxer View Post
    Ummm....dude. The case law does not back you on this. Even if the original arrest by the officer is illegal or improper a citizen or a citizen and 20 of his buddies don't have the right to resist as you say "aggression" by the police. Enforcing a law you don't agree with is not aggression by me. You don't get to pick and choose when you will obey the legal, lawful commands of a LEO. He is a representative of the government, as such you are not entitled to resist him or you will go to jail, prison, or the hospital.
    If you don't agree with the law or the LEO actions you can make a complaint, sue, etc. What you cannot do is physically resist the LEO. We don't get paid to take butt-whippings just for doing our job, thinking like this is what makes my job dangerous.
    Wow. Just so I understand. You're saying that if I don't like something the government does, I should appeal to the government for redress? Gee, I wonder whose side they'll usually take?

    Besides, what you refer to as "lawful" and "legal" are really just words that mean "created by politicians." I'm much more concerned with justice, of which there is little to none anymore in the US.

    I'm done with this one, there are too many here who apparently think the government can do no wrong. Or, even if it made a mistake (they're all innocent mistakes of course), we're just supposed to roll over and take it. I know a lot of us consider ourselves to be sheepdogs here, but many of us have not yet realized that the government is the biggest wolf around.

    Mel
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  9. #69
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    I'm done with this one, there are too many here who apparently think the government can do no wrong. Or, even if it made a mistake (they're all innocent mistakes of course), we're just supposed to roll over and take it.
    That's not it at all, from my perspective. That's an emotional leap not supported by what has been said.

    I'm all for resisting, where it has a chance of making a difference. I'm all for interfering in the business of others, too, if justified (ie, a violence going on that needs intervention).

    As for being detained or arrested for "nothing," I agree with you to a point. NO upstanding citizen is required to meekly accept violation of civil rights.

    But here's the thing. In a nation with a system of laws, there are two ways to "take it": forcible resisting at the point of attention being paid by law enforcement, or changing it through the system of laws. Knowing the way the dice will fall doesn't make one a wimp. It's a sign of wisdom, to wait for the opportunity. In short, there's a saying about this sort of thing: history isn't kind to those who rush it.

    Want an example? Search for the Dan Sayers take-down in Ohio, awhile back, where his on-the-scene bitching got him into a kettle of very hot water for a time. The point is that he was going to be "scanned" as a possible felon, and his bitching wasn't going to help.

    NONE of this means this take-down was right or proper, or that law enforcement, politicians or anyone else can "do no wrong" as you put it. It means only this: in a nation of laws, there is a time and place for everything. And, legal recourse via redress through the courts IS the recourse. It's in the Constitution. Any other manner of "recourse" is a situation where you're gonna get what you get. No telling what that is, but it's not likely to get you home by supper time.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 10th, 2008 at 01:27 PM.
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  10. #70
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    It means only this: in a nation of laws, there is a time and place for everything. And, legal recourse via redress through the courts IS the recourse.
    Trying to address your "point" at the roadside is an exercise in futility.

    Biker

  11. #71
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    I still don't see the debate here over the officer making an arrest.
    That's because there is none. What is being debated is irrelevant.

    You did the right thing. Sometimes doing the right things annoys people for one reason or another. You saw it, you called it, you had the courage to act upon it and you had made a difference. Don't let anyone here convince you of any less. I said it before and I'll say it again, you did a great job.You can cover my back anytime.


    Carry on...
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  12. #72
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgriffin70 View Post
    I still don't see the debate here over the officer making an arrest.
    So what is there to debate?
    There is no debate. Only imaginary rationalizations to justify not doing what we know was the only right, just and honorable thing to do. In short vain transparent justifications for cowardice. Disregarding race uniforms and all other irrelevant garbage, The fact remains that you observed a fellow human being in danger of serious bodily harm or death, under the threat of attack and vastly out numbered. Driven by an obvious sense of duty honor justice morality and integrity that some others apparently lack. You used your head and courageously intervened to effectively deescalate a potentially deadly scenario, Obviously no one can reasonably say otherwise. Thankfully there remain men like you in our nation. Men who know there is more to being human than standing on two legs. More to being a man than owning a penis. Because any one who would stand by and allow a human being be beaten maimed, mutilated and murdered is less than human and less than a man. A coward is far to polite a term for those who exist only for themselves without honor. Whose pathetic existence is driven that the illusion that there is nothing more important than their own comfort and safety.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  13. #73
    Senior Member Array BruceGibson's Avatar
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    Bravo. I'd say you did a good thing. Lack of action by her citizens are slowly killing this country.

    You've got to stand for something. I hope I would do the same under similar circumstances.

    Welcome to the forum.

  14. #74
    Member Array chiboxer's Avatar
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    To answer the point regarding attempting to redress grievances about the government by going through the government...our system (representational republic) was designed to do just that. Is it perfect? No. However, attempting to resist the police who are just enforcing the laws put in place by the legislature is an exercise in futility.
    I, personally, have arrested people for violating laws that I don't agree with. Just because I don't agree with the law doesn't mean I can pick and choose which I enforce and which I don't. No more than you have a choice about which laws you can obey and which you can't. If you don't like a law your proper forum for such a dispute is in the courtroom or by attempting to change law. Fighting with police is futility because they have no power to change the law, its content, or their constitutional duty to enforce it.
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

  15. #75
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiboxer View Post
    To answer the point regarding attempting to redress grievances about the government by going through the government...our system (representational republic) was designed to do just that. Is it perfect? No. However, attempting to resist the police who are just enforcing the laws put in place by the legislature is an exercise in futility.
    I, personally, have arrested people for violating laws that I don't agree with. Just because I don't agree with the law doesn't mean I can pick and choose which I enforce and which I don't. No more than you have a choice about which laws you can obey and which you can't. If you don't like a law your proper forum for such a dispute is in the courtroom or by attempting to change law. Fighting with police is futility because they have no power to change the law, its content, or their constitutional duty to enforce it.

    who on earth has advocated fighting witht he police on this forum?
    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

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