Nightmare scenario - threat from family - Page 2

Nightmare scenario - threat from family

This is a discussion on Nightmare scenario - threat from family within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This subject came up quite a while ago and I did some SERIOUS thinking about it. What I came down to was pretty straight forward. ...

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Thread: Nightmare scenario - threat from family

  1. #16
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    This subject came up quite a while ago and I did some SERIOUS thinking about it.

    What I came down to was pretty straight forward.

    I think I could defend myself from a LARGE majority of my family (in fact, there are a few cousins that I would probably feel better if I never saw again) except for my siblings, my mother or my husband. As far as my Dad is concerned, I'll say that knowing him as well as I do it would be a little more understandable that I'd have to defend myself from him but he has REALLY mellowed out as he's gotten older and we've gotten a lot closer. I'm a little more inclined to say I could defend myself from him if I had to.

    All that being said... My family is my life. My husband, my mother, my brother... were it not for them I would have nothing and nothing would be quite the same without them. I trust them implicitly and love them unconditionally and I would be so entirely shocked that they were trying to hurt me that I would probably watch in disbelief as they hurt me and not be able to lift a finger in my own defense.

    However, since I got pregnant and I realize that my responsibility of life extends to my child I find in myself a little more of a fight response when it comes to the family that I thought previously.

    If I needed to defend my child against anyone, even my husband, you'd better believe I would do it. Right now that includes defending myself as my life is directly linked to the life of my unborn baby.

    I don't know how it will be when the baby is born. I don't know if I'll have a stronger drive to defend myself so I will be here to defend my child or if I will revert back to the understanding that I'd probably die in disbelief rather than raise a hand against those I trust and love most completely.

    A huge HUGE part of me wants to say that none of the people listed would EVER do anything to cause me to have to defend myself but we all know that human beings are.. well, human beings and capable of ANYTHING, even the unthinkable.

    I guess it's so hard because unlike some of my extended family, those people who I hesitate to say I could defend myself against, are some of the most kindhearted, loving, wonderful people on the face of this earth. They have not only never hurt me but have gone out of their way to defend me and help me, love me and protect me.

    It's hardest to conceive of having to defend myself from my husband.

    I look across the room at him, sitting on the couch, typing away at his computer and I think, "Could I really defend myself from him?" It feels dirty even thinking that he could ever hurt me. I not only have faith that he would never hurt me but that he would give his life to defend me and our son.

    I would much rather live under that kind of trust and faith (delusional, romantic and naive as it may seem to some) than even entertain the notion that I might have to hurt him to save myself.

    I do all I can to protect him, provide for his needs, make him happy, honor him.. and I'm pretty sure that if it were possible I'd give everything for him, including my life.

    I don't know if I could hurt him to save myself. I don't want to know.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    The post originally asked about the black sheep of the extended family, Lima - you don't have to go down that road. We respect your unwillingness to consider JD as a threat (he certainly seems to be quite the opposite), and we also respect your desire to properly care for your child. Yay, Mama Bear!

  3. #18
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    I not only have faith that he would never hurt me but that he would give his life to defend me and our son.
    I do all I can to protect him, provide for his needs, make him happy, honor him.. and I'm pretty sure that if it were possible I'd give everything for him, including my life.

    and that is exactly as it should be...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  4. #19
    Member Array 1911packer's Avatar
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    To add to what others have said. We all understand that one should not carry a firearm unless one is absolutely prepared to use it to protect life and limb.

    While you may have resolved that issue in you mind concerning strangers, until you resolve it concerning your relative, you leave yourself open to possibly a moment of indecision that could cost you.

    I pray that you find peace in your decision.

  5. #20
    Member Array Rayman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Yes.

    My brother-in-law, who has robbed my home several times, and who beats my sister, his wife, for fun, has threatened to kill me, my wife, my child, and my mother many times. I've got a drawer full of restraining orders. And my wife and I have both been armed 24x7 for years...

    The good news - he managed to die last week, and I didn't have to be involved in the process. Yay.

  6. #21
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    Threat to life is just that. Doesn't really matter who the perpetrator is. If it turns out the SOB is someone I know, it'll have a pitiful component to it, sure, and it'll make Thanksgiving and birthdays a bit less comfortable, but it doesn't change the facts. Other than a domestic dispute, I can't see how it complicates things, legally. It is what it is. If justified to defend against the situation, do so and sleep well at night in the knowledge that you've defended yourself and family.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    The post originally asked about the black sheep of the extended family, Lima - you don't have to go down that road. We respect your unwillingness to consider JD as a threat (he certainly seems to be quite the opposite), and we also respect your desire to properly care for your child. Yay, Mama Bear!
    Oh, I know. And like I said I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have a problem with some extended family, but then I started thinking about the rest of my family and my poor post morphed.

    Unfortunately I can type JUST ABOUT as fast as I can think (which means I think slow and type fast so they meet in the middle somewhere..lol) and that means my posts can get away from me.

    Bad, Lima, Bad!


  8. #23
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    Faithmyeyes

    Ask yourself...How would you feel after this person has harmed your wife and/or children (if you have any)? You are their FIRST line of defense...Take the steps you would a stranger or someone outside the family to protect them...Remember.We can choose our Friends but NOT our Family...

    My Prayers are with you and your family...

  9. #24
    Member Array faithmyeyes's Avatar
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    First of all, thanks to everyone for your thoughts, encouragement, and prayers. It's very much appreciated.

    Does your wife carry? or is she familiar with firearms? Is there a restraining order against this family member? For your legal protection, you need to have a paper trail on this.
    No, my wife does not carry. While not anti, she's not proficient or mentally prepared enough to take up a pistol for self-defense. That may change, but it won't do so overnight.

    One of the offended family members claims to have gotten a restraining order, but may be lying for dramatic effect.

    Personally, I do not believe you will win this person to the Lord by allowing him/her to rip you off or hurt you
    Neither do I. I don't know what it will take to get through to this person, and I don't imagine that I'll be the one to do it - but it still matters to me. I still pray for it to happen, and that this person's life will take a positive turn - for themselves and everyone else.

    Many of you have mentioned that lines need to be drawn. My wife and I couldn't agree more, but those who need to be drawing them and who have the legal recourse to do so refuse to recognize the potential magnitude of the threat. I'm afraid it may take the consequences of a violent event to motivate any action to be taken at all.

    As for me: If my immediate family is stolen from, I will prosecute. If this "black sheep" lays a hand on my wife or kids, I'll intervene physically and then press charges. If a deadly weapon is produced, I will respond in kind.

    My having to shoot this person down because they've drawn a gun on my family is, of course, the nightmare scenario. Suddenly, in addition to my own issues after such an event, I've got to deal with the fact that the rest of the family will likely hold me responsible for the whole thing in order to avoid their guilt over not having dealt with the problem when lesser measures would have sufficed.

    Even if I were able to emotionally blow off my entire extended family - "whatever, don't need them" - my wife isn't. I'd still have to live with, support, and do my best by her.

    Making what I'm convinced is the right decision offers no guarantee of a happy ending. That's a tough pill for an idealist like me to swallow, but I feel that considering these things is a necessary part of growing up and into the responsibility I take on when I pull my head out of the sand and decide that my family's safety really is my problem.

    Thanks again for discussing this stuff with me.

    in peace
    faithmyeyes

  10. #25
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    Regarding your relationship with the other members, the Sheep so to speek,,
    yes it is indeed frustrating to watch as others are victimized, but remember that is their choice,, you have not become a victim for more than one reason, and criminals prey on the weak,, you have drawn your line, it is beyond your control at this time if this rabid dog crosses the line,,,,,, if he does treat him as you would a rabid dog,,,,, if he does not cross the line then the best you can hope for is to sway those sheep into becoming more active in setting boundaries, this of course wont make you feel anybetter when one of those sheep get eaten by the rabid dog, but from what you have described it does not sound to me like swaying those sheep into the safety of reasonable action is going to be an easy task. That is a task I would take wholeheartedly at this time, because you recognize a threat. How are you going to feel if this threat acts, and you did not do your best to get the people he is victimizing now to stop it at an early stage? I pray for your family, at least your immediate family has a sheepdog,,,, May God bless and guide you in this difficult time.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Yes.

    My brother-in-law, who has robbed my home several times, and who beats my sister, his wife, for fun, has threatened to kill me, my wife, my child, and my mother many times. I've got a drawer full of restraining orders. And my wife and I have both been armed 24x7 for years...

    The good news - he managed to die last week, and I didn't have to be involved in the process. Yay.
    Kinda makes me believe in a higher power.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Simply put:

    This is my family, there are many like it, but this one is MINE.

    Wat that means is, even if you are family, if you threaten my family and I feel you will go through with it you will either be put away or put down.

    Like someone said before, he has relinquished his "family card" and needs to be dealt with, starting with the proverbial paper trail, and this needs to be done so that if anything does need to be done by you then it will be covered that you went the proper routes and if this knucklehead still wants to, as Retsupt99 put it "step up to the pay window" it will be justifiable.

    Hang in there and keep one eye open. Another route would be to, since it seems no one is really doing anything about it, is to drop the whole lot of them for the sake of your's.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  13. #28
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    I think that in any situation you should respond in a reasonable manner. So what dose that mean?

    Example;
    If you are home alone and he shows up at the door and knocks. You answer the door, he becomes angry, pulls out a knife and states, "I'm going to kill you!"

    Would it be REASONABLE to use lethal force? Yes! Two to the chest, and one to the head. Nobody would fault you on this forum. Would it also be REASONABLE to slam the door in his face draw your handgun and retreat back to a good point of cover inside the house, give him verbal commands to leave or you will shoot and then call the cops? Only using lethal force if he pressed the issue. Yes! Both responses are REASONABLE.

    Would I be more inclined to attempt something like the latter solution if I was presented with a threat from a family member? I'm sure I would. Now with that said, my family and me come first. I'm just saying don't disregard other REASONABLE options.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Just my two cents, Lima.....

    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I don't know how it will be when the baby is born. I don't know if I'll have a stronger drive to defend myself so I will be here to defend my child or if I will revert back to the understanding that I'd probably die in disbelief rather than raise a hand against those I trust and love most completely.
    I can pretty well assure you that if it came to that, you would, indeed, be able to defend yourself and your son against your other loved ones. It happened with my husband...good with us at first, increasingly abusive over the years. My rage was eventually sufficient that I could have taken his life if I believed he was an immediate threat to our kids. Fortunately it didn't happen.

    You'll see. In a typical mother/child relationship, NOTHING comes between you and them. If someone else you love became a real threat to your son, it would probably happen slowly, and as your anger grew, your ability to protect him with lethal force would grow, too.

    I would tell you what I tell my (almost grown) kids. Don't go crazy, but listen to your instincts. If you think there's danger, there probably is. And then do what is necessary.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithmyeyes View Post
    Have any of you ever been faced with, or considered as a hypothetical, the possibility of having to defend against a deadly threat from within your family? Would your actions in response be any different than if the threat were a complete stranger? What might the legal implications be?

    I find myself having to consider such a possibility. I don't want to be overly specific, but it's something like the wayward cousin who's been in small-time trouble for a number of years... this person is somewhat of a sympathetic figure and is being "protected" by other family members who have allowed themselves to be taken advantage of - even to the point of refusing to report criminal offenses against themselves (theft, most commonly - but occasionally "minor" battery).

    Recently it has become apparent that this person is using some type of drugs. Additionally, they may have made death threats against another family member (person who claimed this is not 100% reliable) and may have acquired or be trying to acquire a firearm (don't know the whole story here yet).

    I pray daily that this situation will de-fuse on its own or that those who have been directly offended and could take action to prevent any further problems will do so. However, prudence in considering the defense of my immediate family dictates that I at least consider scenarios such as this person's showing up at a family gathering while high, getting into an argument, and producing a deadly weapon. Such a scenario could have no "good" outcome.

    I'm pretty torn up emotionally over the dichotomy of having a real Christian concern for this person and their welfare vs. being forced to recognize a potential deadly threat. I will defend my family at any cost, but the cost in this case is almost unthinkable.

    Thanks for putting up with my rambling. You can imagine that discussing this with those close to me would be rather dicey... but just getting some of it in words and off my chest eases some of the worry.

    in peace
    faithmyeyes
    Yes, I have had to consider the very same thing for many of the same reasons in regards to my oldest son (18 years old). My wife, 15 year old son & I have been dealing with our particular problem for many months. It has caused profound sadness!

    The description "being torn up emotionally" somehow just does not do justice to the myriad of emotions one goes through in this sort of situation. Horrible is the word that most frequently comes to my mind.

    My resolve: To protect my wife, my youngest & myself...period!
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