Undercover bust in front of me

This is a discussion on Undercover bust in front of me within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; in the city their was usualy a marked unit to come-in and assist but their is not always time for that. And as far as ...

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Thread: Undercover bust in front of me

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    in the city their was usualy a marked unit to come-in and assist but their is not always time for that. And as far as changing policy becases of ccw holders i under stand that lots of people have them and that does make an officers job more risky but u have to under stand also it not a badge and give you no athority to jump in the middle of a fight you have no idea whats going on. That goes for with police involved or not. Regular citizens are not trained or equiped with diffrent tools for diffrent situations. Now with that said im very pro ccw. I think people should have the right to defend them selfs but not be mall ninjas out to save the world.

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f8lranger4x4 View Post
    in the city their was usualy a marked unit to come-in and assist but their is not always time for that. And as far as changing policy becases of ccw holders i under stand that lots of people have them and that does make an officers job more risky but u have to under stand also it not a badge and give you no athority to jump in the middle of a fight you have no idea whats going on. That goes for with police involved or not. Regular citizens are not trained or equiped with diffrent tools for diffrent situations. Now with that said im very pro ccw. I think people should have the right to defend them selfs but not be mall ninjas out to save the world.
    I've seen quite a few responses in this thread about minding your own business, etc... when faced with a similar situation. I agree that cooler heads should prevail but in many instances (not to mention the Florida Statutes) CCWers mention providing saftey for the sheep. At the Fl CCW Webpage ( Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, DOACS ) the following text can be found (FAQs) saying you are legal to protect someone else. Until such time that the OP learned the UC LEO was in fact a LEO he could have reasonably believed the driver was being attacked vs. arrested. The LE community shouldn't wait until a gravely unfortunate event occurs BEFORE refresher training is a good idea. Likewise, this incident can serve to CCWers as a good example about the finality of deadly force.

    Q. When can I use deadly force in the defense of another person?

    A. If you see someone who is being attacked, you can use deadly force to defend him/her if the circumstances would justify that person's use of deadly force in his/her own defense. In other words, you "stand in the shoes" of the person being attacked.



    Q. What if I see a crime being committed?

    A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.
    rolyat63
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor

    A gun in the hand is a million times more valuable than a cop on the phone!

    FL Concealed Weapon or Firearm Program

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Kinda hard to tell the players w/out jerseys or programs, aint it?

    Dan

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    I see the point on both side I'm not totaly saying people should stay out of everything, but you must look at it this way. #1 when u encounter another individual with a weapon your already out gunned if his weapon is drawn you are pretty screwed. LEO or not. # 2 their are two individuals with guns already drawn so your twice as screwed. #3 Your it on the scene at the time no backup no vest and 1 gun for 2 targets. Me personaly I'm not jumping in this becase u don't even know whats going on. What if it was a drug deal gone bad then you jump in and both sides start shooting at you. Or better yet what if it is the police and now your sitting in jail or dead because of that decision. Thats my point. No one can tell you 100% what they would do in that situation, but my point is its 3 seconds to make a choice thats going to effect peoples lifes. That is the last thing I would ever want to have to do is pull the trigger. And yes Training needs updates and they are working on it thats why you don't see many no nock warrents any more. I'm not trying to nock on anyone just adding a point of view. I would hope if im out their getting my butt kicked some one would jump in and help me. CC holders have proven them self over and over again, but all it takes is one bad incident to put a monkey wrench in it. Kinda sucks but thats how life is.

  6. #35
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    Get involved or stay out of it? That's the decision, right? Influence. That's the beauty of carrying a gun. You can influence a situation. Without the gun your options would have been very limited.

    First, be thankful that you had options. That's what is great about our country. You also have the ability to seriously screw something up. What is it they say, "With great power comes great responsibility". It's not a perfect world, nor are situations always ideal. When you chose to carry a gun, you also chose to make those decisions.

    Just remember that you are going to be judged by what a reasonable person would do in your situation. And you are going to be judged on the totality of the situation as you understood it at the time of the incident. That goes for the Police as well. They are judged by how a reasonable plain clothed police officer would have conducted the stop.
    I think it is important to note that the Police certainly didn't break any laws and were not operating outside of the legal system.

    One of the basic firearms safety rules apply hear, "Be sure of your target and what is behind it." You shouldn't guess when lives are on the line. You should resolve all doubt and be able to articulate your actions.

    It sounds as though their was doubts and that is why you didn't shoot. I have been in those situations also. Even if you find out later that you could have legally and morally shot the guy, it doesn't matter if you were not sure of that at the moment of truth.

    So everything worked the way it should have. Could things have been done better? Probably but who knows. Are real situations always simple? No. Good job.

  7. #36
    Member Array crankinNM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluelineman View Post
    How do you know it was a Glock 21?
    8 feet is really close.............I zeroed in on the gun.

    There could have been a lot that I missed.........the gun was not one of them.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    This is why I don't get involved and only carry to protect me and mine when I'm off duty.

    You don't know the players, or what's going on, that's a great reason to MYOB.

    Biker
    +1

    Oh, so true... In today world you can never tell the players from the LEO's.

    I would never ever get involved. Exception; officer down in uniform or upon request from an office I knew or who was in uniform

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array bluelineman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankinNM View Post
    8 feet is really close.............I zeroed in on the gun.

    There could have been a lot that I missed.........the gun was not one of them.
    I seemed to miss that part the first time reading it.

    That's pretty close to the action.

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