SWAT team shows teachers how to deal with a shooter

SWAT team shows teachers how to deal with a shooter

This is a discussion on SWAT team shows teachers how to deal with a shooter within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Daily Tribune : Lesson: How to handle a shooting 08/22/08 In my local paper... Not everything is garbage, but I wanted to puke a couple ...

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Thread: SWAT team shows teachers how to deal with a shooter

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    SWAT team shows teachers how to deal with a shooter

    Daily Tribune : Lesson: How to handle a shooting 08/22/08


    In my local paper... Not everything is garbage, but I wanted to puke a couple times. Just have to remember that these cops/trainers are working with laws that they have no control over, so maybe they aren't doing a bad job.

    Lesson: How to handle a shooting

    SWAT team shows teachers, staff their role in emergencies

    By Catherine Kavanaugh
    Daily Tribune Staff Writer

    One of the hardest lessons taught Thursday to teachers watching a simulated shooting scenario at Royal Oak Middle School is not to open their locked classrooms to students begging to get inside as gunshots echo in the hallway.

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    Don't compromise a secure room, Ferndale Lt. Bill Wilson told about 70 teachers, counselors and administrators at a three-hour training session put on to show public and private school staff in Royal Oak, Berkley and Oak Park how they should respond to such an emergency.

    Teachers should lock the classroom door. Barricade the door. Get students away from windows and keep them out of the sight and out of the line of gunfire.

    "Let nobody in. Trust nobody," Wilson said. "If 22 kids are in the room and one is out there saying he's shot or hurt, leave that kid out there. It may seem heartless, but instead of risking one student you could risk a whole classroom being killed."

    The shooter could be posing as a victim or close enough to barge in at the same time, according to Wilson and members of the Southeast Oakland SWAT Team who put on the training session.

    Danielle Cover, who teaches first grade at Norup International Academy, Berkley, said she would have to fight emotions to not help a child to safety.

    "I know in my heart of hearts that makes sense and I will have to push emotion aside for the benefit of my kids," Cover said.

    Teachers also were told to leave blinds open on exterior windows for police to see inside as they search for the suspect. However, they should close blinds on classroom doors to protect students from the shooters.

    Police also told school employees to forget about the placard system. Educators once were told to slip a green paper under the door if their room is secure or red for trouble.

    "The bad guys know about this so they can use placards to confuse us," said Royal Oak Lt. David Clemens.

    If a school employee sees a suspicious person in the building, they should call police right away and not their supervisor.

    "You're burning valuable time," Wilson said.

    If the caller says the intruder is a gunman or a terrorist is in a school, police immediately will send an entry team into the building to look for the suspect. This is a lesson they learned in 1999 from Columbine High School, where two students went on a rampage killing 15 and injuring 24.

    "The police waited for the SWAT team to go inside and there was a lot of carnage," Wilson said.

    The entry team of officers will step over injured students, not stopping to help them, as they sweep the building to find the suspect and put an end to any more gunfire. They won't knock on classroom doors. They will use pass cards or gain access another way. Then, they will order everyone to lie on the floor with their hands in plain view as they follow the policy of trusting no one.

    Some teachers wanted to know if they should try to fight a gunman or hostage taker. SWAT team members said that's an individual choice.

    "What do you have to lose?" Wilson asked. "In some cases you might as well die trying."

    There were 42 U.S. school attacks between February 1995 and February 2008 with dozens of students and teachers killed each year, according to Clemens. He compares that to one student fire death in the last 27 years, which is due in part to decades of fire drills.

    "The threat of an active shooter taking someone's life is more realistic than someone dying in a fire, so we have to be prepared for these things," Clemens said.

    After police clear an area of the building, or the suspects are in custody or killed, more emergency personnel will enter the school. They will be the teams to tend to the injured and escort people from classrooms.

    As the SWAT leaders wrapped up the lecture, simulated gunshots rang in the hallway and student actors with the Madison Heights Explorers ran into the room and ducked for cover. Two shooters armed with handguns followed, cursing classmates for poor treatment over the years. One killed some students while the other went to another wing of the school to hunt down a teacher.

    Drill spectators then followed police and the SWAT team as they took down one shooter and located the other in a classroom with the targeted teacher and classmates.

    "The situation is contained here so we can send in help for the injured," Clemens told the group.

    Then, they watched police negotiate the surrender of the gunman who took hostages in a classroom.

    Sheila Goldberg, a school counselor in Oak Park, took notes throughout the training session.

    "This has been a good refresher, like keeping the kids out of sight by the hallway wall so the gunman can't see them inside the classroom" Goldberg said. "Fortunately we haven't had to deal with this and you tend to forget things."

    With school bullying a problem everywhere, it seems a school shooting could happen anywhere, Goldberg added.

    "I can see why these kinds of drills should be essential," she said. "Bullying is a real concern and it seems to come to the forefront in high school. The anger from middle school turns into a plan in high school. It's frightening."

    Goldberg is making emergency response flip charts for classrooms in Oak Park, Berkley and Royal Oak -- three districts that received a $244,000 grant from the U.S. Dept. of Education's Office of Safe and Drug-Free School to improve crisis management training.

    "Then everyone will be on the same page and know what to do in any event -- a chemical spill, intruder or terrorism -- that would jeopardize lives," said Barbara Patrick of EduTech Solutions, Inc. of Bloomfield Hills, which handled the grant application.

    In addition to the shooting scenario drill and flip charts, the grant will be used to train educators to deal with chemical spills and pandemics, provide basic life-saving skills, such as CPR, and to buy defibrillators for schools.

    Contact Catherine Kavanaugh at cathy.kavanaugh@dailytribune.com or (248) 591-2504.
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  2. #2
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    And to think the worst thing I had to deal with in high school was getting to class late....
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    I believe that SWAT teams may be able to offer more effective 'how to handle' dirtbags with guns information in some TX schools...hopefully more school districts to follow.
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    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    And to think the worst thing I had to deal with in high school was getting to class late....
    Yep, just this afternoon my barber and I were discussing this situation. He and his wife CCW. His daughter is going to USF to become a teacher. A noble profession and I have even thought it would be a lot of fun. The problem is I am basing this on a memory of "school" which is too near thirty years ago. I reported on the SD News section on a trio of rapist which included a 13 year old. He was in somebodies class. Since this is a 2A section I wonder if, like me, would other veterans be more likely to teach after a career of service if the sheeple promoted having a sheep dog amongst the "kids". Right now though, the mind set seems to be so PC that the teachers have to be afraid of everything between the parents, student and pressure from the system.
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    We have been doing this for years.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Maybe they'll show teachers how to kick doors down and shoot the dogs.

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    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    "There were 42 U.S. school attacks between February 1995 and February 2008..."

    Wow. I can only remember a dozen or so, and can't recall if some pre date that.

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    Why not train the teachers to use a firearm and let them end the threat.
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    I watched a film when I was young.... it was of a famous Chicago school that burned. Teachers were taught to keep control and students at their desks. And there were pictures of these charred little kids.... sitting at their desks, right where they died.

    A "rebel" of a teacher didn't listen to "policy" ..... and began dropping her kids out of the 2nd story window. They all lived, and only one suffered a broken leg.

    Schools... tend to be conservative and appeasing.... neither always serves the purpose in an emergency. Myself... if I'm sure the gunman is INSIDE the building and shooting .... I may be putting the kids out the window and out of the school all together... with a designated place for them to go to for safety.

    Or ...

    Breaking school policy and shooting them if they try to enter the room.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, and while it's far easier to teach every teach to never let in a kid thats beating on the door screaming for help, I'd have to have a play it as you see it approach and perhaps if the gunshots are way down the hall there is time to let in a bunch of students from the hallway. Aren't shooting done by students more likely when all the kids are in the hallway anyway? So at the first gunshots, the teachers are supposed to lock up with just one or 2 students in the room? I have to agree with the idea of giving the teachers the tools to end the threat or hold their ground.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Maybe they'll show teachers how to kick doors down and shoot the dogs.
    Real classy.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    I almost wonder if the situation existed where you had no time to evac the students, and all you had time to do was to barricade and set up defensive position, if something like this would actually work:

    Hydra-lock Protecting schools during Active Shooter Scenarios

    I spotted it there when I was snagging a few other items a couple of weeks ago.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    I almost wonder if the situation existed where you had no time to evac the students, and all you had time to do was to barricade and set up defensive position, if something like this would actually work:

    Hydra-lock Protecting schools during Active Shooter Scenarios

    I spotted it there when I was snagging a few other items a couple of weeks ago.
    If you really think about it, most school shooting situations you are better off locking things down rather than creating a mass cattle drive out into the hall ways and out a few exits. This lesson was learned in Arkansas.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    GEE I WONDER WHY?

    MSP - Pistol Free Areas

    Pistol Free Areas

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:



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    Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

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    Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

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    An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

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    A hospital

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    A Casino

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  15. #15
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Options are always good. Arkansas gets honorable mention once again......nice. Training is good, but things seldom go as planned or taught in panic situations.

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