Loved One at Knife Point.

This is a discussion on Loved One at Knife Point. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thumper, unfortunately, with your plan, and a knife at her throat, she would end up killing herself....

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Thread: Loved One at Knife Point.

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Thumper, unfortunately, with your plan, and a knife at her throat, she would end up killing herself.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    He's got to make his choice.

    1. Let her go and leave.
    2. Hurt her and I start shooting.
    3. Try to leave with her and I start shooting.

    I'm not inclined to give my name or address to anybody, although I would likely hand over any cash and show him that that's all there is.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Thumper, unfortunately, with your plan, and a knife at her throat, she would end up killing herself.
    That's hardly assured, as it depends on the BG maintaining that blade in that spot, immovable, throughout the fake. The bet is: the bit of surprise will afford a time window during which action can be taken.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  5. #34
    Member Array mtnclimber's Avatar
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    Either myself or the BG would not make it out of the parking lot alive. I would use the situation to figure out what is best. I always choose my CCW guns considering a hostage situation head shot so accuracy is evaluated. Thinking ahead about how to distract the BG and having your partner know the drill is probably a good thing. Like, when you wink with one eye, she drops to the ground or takes all weight off her feet. Or move your head in the direction she should move her head.

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    Shoot first. Comply with demands later.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  7. #36
    Member Array tamworth's Avatar
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    count to 15 seconds. This is how long a person will take to die if his heart is shot out. Any hunter will confirm this who's blown a deer's heart out and still had to track it for up to a mile before it's died. The ONLY shots that will cause instant death in the BG are one to the brain (from the front it's right between the eyes, to the brain stem), or that little area at the base of the neck, which will sever the upper spinal column. If the bad guy has a gun to someone's head, the ONLY shot that will kill him dead before and reflexes allow him to pull the trigger is the brain stem shot. Any other shot, you're depending on him to realize he's been shot and then wuss out. If it pisses him off, she's dead. If he doesn't notice he's been shot and thinks you've missed, she's dead. A heck of a lot can happen in 15 seconds, and that's one of the quickest bleed-outs you can hope for. Most of the time, a gun shot isn't deadly. Even a head shot. Food for thought. I know I can make this shot on paper, but I've seen myself shake just after a close call on the road. I wouldn't want to put myself in that situation. My favorite answer for any of these situation questions is I don't know what I would do until I'm in that situation. I might surprise myself. But at the same time, I'm not going to dismiss the situation just because I don't know how I'd react. I try to keep myself mentally aware of all the crap that could happen, and the options that would be presented to me, but to imagine what I would do from beginning to end is too close-minded for me.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamworth View Post
    A heck of a lot can happen in 15 seconds ...
    I don't think anybody's limiting the response to a single-shot prayer.

    There are no guarantees with any of the choices. But, I can bank on this: giving up my ability to defend merely ends up leaving two people unable to defend.

    My favorite answer for any of these situation questions is I don't know what I would do until I'm in that situation.
    That's fine, as far as it goes. Still, we must prepare for what we're hoping to handle. Can't deal with what we've not considered or refused to consider, at least not very effectively.

    Consideration isn't assurance, neither of doing something or of outcome. It's merely having run through the problem and attempted to train through the available options such that, if the situation should ever arise, one at least has a clue about the flow a situation could take, the options for outcome. Ain't nothing for certain.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array XD 45's Avatar
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    I would give him what he wants then first chance Im going to make him a holey man.
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I would give him my wallet/cells/keys, and when he let go of my wife I would shoot him, a lot. If he injured my wife after I gave into his demands, I would kill him. Lethal force is justifed(in my state) and I would use it. There are very few sacred things in my life. My wife is at the top of that list.

    There is a possibility that if I thought he would hurt my wife regardless of whether I complied, I might draw and if I had a shot, I would shoot him. If I did not have a shot, I would make it clear that if he hurt her, I would kill him.

    I understand that this post is different from the normal 'shoot to stop' mentality, but when it comes to a maniac threatening to kill my wife, I will have no hesitation or doubts.

    I live in Texas, its different here.
    big +1 here ,( this is probably the 100th time I've copied Kerbouchard's posts) in this day in time I would throw all my belongings out of my pockets with the last one being pointed between his eye's!! Depending on distance and position he will more then likely leave there in a bag!! Aim small,miss small !! MS law is on my side!
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

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  11. #40
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    but he has made a HUGE mistake...he's bringing a knife to a gun fight.
    One way or another, this BG is not leaving...his threatening days are over.

    I would expect no less from my wife if I were being held.

    Stay armed...know the gunfight rules...stay safe!
    LOL.. Poor victim selection for sure, to bad he will never realize how bad of a mistake he made!!
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  12. #41
    Member Array tamworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I don't think anybody's limiting the response to a single-shot prayer.

    There are no guarantees with any of the choices. But, I can bank on this: giving up my ability to defend merely ends up leaving two people unable to defend.
    No, I hope that anyone who says that they would shoot is thinking of a single shot take down. If it's anything more than one shot, the wife/loved one is going to be killed. Are you confident that you'll be able to defuse his brain/upper spinal column with that accurate a shot before he realizes what's happening? I can on a paper target all day long into the same hole. But if I start moving around, my accuracy lowers. I can't imagine what hypertension would do to my accuracy, let alone my mentality. But I can 'prepare my mind' for the possibility of this scenario happening. Like I said before though, I can't afford to assume that any one plan will work, but I can think of all the possible choices I could make, and what possible effects may come from those.

    Regarding your statement about giving up your ability to defend... By choosing not to shoot because of the crap storm that could be unleashed because of it, wouldn't it be justified to say that by complying to the demands of the BG while your wife/loved one is being held at knife point, that you are in a way defending your wife/loved one's life from harm? (THEN deciding whether you want to take an unjustified shot after the robbery is over and he isn't threatening your life anymore, unless you're in Texas!)

    Obviously there are no guarantees. But there's a difference between accepting risk, and inviting it. It's more of a question of employing lethal force against the BG while the wife/loved one is being held at knifepoint...

    If you ask me, the focus of preparing yourself should be just as strong on what to do IN this sort of situation, as well as in the preparation of how to AVOID this kind of situation through strong situational awareness.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    If it's anything more than one shot, the wife/loved one is going to be killed.
    Is? Not might be ... may likely be ... but, IS going to be killed? I train to avoid exactly this. Am not saying the worst won't occur. Am not saying it'll all turn out peaches and cream, but I hardly think 2+ shots guarantees death of all GG's in the area because of friendly fire.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I would give him my wallet/cells/keys, and when he let go of my wife I would shoot him, a lot. If he injured my wife after I gave into his demands, I would kill him. Lethal force is justifed(in my state) and I would use it. There are very few sacred things in my life. My wife is at the top of that list.

    There is a possibility that if I thought he would hurt my wife regardless of whether I complied, I might draw and if I had a shot, I would shoot him. If I did not have a shot, I would make it clear that if he hurt her, I would kill him.

    I understand that this post is different from the normal 'shoot to stop' mentality, but when it comes to a maniac threatening to kill my wife, I will have no hesitation or doubts.

    I live in Texas, its different here.
    Exactly, perfect answer that I can add nothing too, except I live in Washington which is even better
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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  15. #44
    Member Array tamworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Is? Not might be ... may likely be ... but, IS going to be killed? I train to avoid exactly this. Am not saying the worst won't occur. Am not saying it'll all turn out peaches and cream, but I hardly think 2+ shots guarantees death of all GG's in the area because of friendly fire.
    no, I don't mean by friendly fire; I mean if your shot doesn't beat his startle reflex, and he's got a knife to your wife/loved one's throat, he's going to cut.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cv7713 View Post
    Let me rephrase, I'm going to shoot the SOB with or without my CWL. I guess my question is am I going to jail for 25-life because I was trying to save my wife's life?
    Depends on the state. Check the laws of your state I know that in the state of Illinios they would nail you, thanks to the hard work and efforts of Obama. One of the ONLY things he actually stood for during his term in office. If need be I would do the time rather than allow my wife to be hurt

    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    If he releases her you are no longer if fear of GBH or death are you?
    Why would he not be? He has demonstrated a willingness to kill my loved one, he is still armed, he now has my wallet with my personal information he is now an even greater threat. Now if he drops the knife and lays down face first in the dirt to surrender it makes thing more difficult to explain. Paying the price for endangering the life of my family does not include free room and board, or three hots a cot and weight set

    Quote Originally Posted by agentmel View Post
    Me: "Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to throw my wallet to you. You let my loved one go and take my wallet and I'll let you go. If you harm her in any way, I will draw my pistol and fill you with holes. Your choice."
    For those that suggest threatening the perp. Reverse it. If I have a knife in my hand and someone with a gun threatens to draw and shoot me. He will be gutted like a pig from his crotch to the roof of his mouth before the gun clears leather. I have proven how that is possible hundreds of times. I would never ever under estimate a knife. I never under estimate my enemy. IMO the old bringing a knife to a gun fight cliche is misleading. Knives are every bit as deadly as a gun. To think otherwise is uninformed and poor mind set

    The only time my gun comes out is to push the boom button, there is no reason to warn, threaten, or tell them what I am going to do. The 230 grain HST expanding inside their body will explain everything that they need to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamworth View Post
    no, I don't mean by friendly fire; I mean if your shot doesn't beat his startle reflex, and he's got a knife to your wife/loved one's throat, he's going to cut.
    A reflexive action that a hand may make upon being shot is not enough force to terminally slit someone's throat. To sever someone's windpipe and arteries takes some real force. Still I'd take my shoots once my wife was not at risk for being cut. If need be to stop a violent fleeing felon as defined by Washington Sates RCW's
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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