Elevator Scenario

This is a discussion on Elevator Scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Rcher Although I like this answer, its probably not the right reaction. If the scenario matches the OP's, all one can do ...

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Thread: Elevator Scenario

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcher View Post
    Although I like this answer, its probably not the right reaction. If the scenario matches the OP's, all one can do is take the lickin' and hope your not killed. As soon as you pull a weapon in that confined space, your dead from one of them. I guess I'll just take the stairs from now on.

    I wouldn't pull the weapon in the confined space with them. I'd give them what they want and hope they don't kill/beat me. As they are leaving, and I have my space, then I'd open fire.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    ...As they are leaving, and I have my space, then I'd open fire.
    ??? If they're leaving, the threat is gone. Why would you shoot them? Of course, if one turned back towards you, I can understand it if you were thinking he might be about to get rid of you as a witness. But everything I've learned here suggests that I should shoot to stop the threat rather than to take out a bad guy as he leaves.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcher View Post
    Although I like this answer, its probably not the right reaction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    ??? If they're leaving, the threat is gone. Why would you shoot them?
    That was my point as well. No matter how bad they beat you, the threat is now over, cant shoot 'em in the back just because they whooped your arse and stole your personals. At this point, you need to be a better witness. Either way, this is an ugly scenario.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

  5. #19
    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    on the way out...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rcher View Post
    That was my point as well. No matter how bad they beat you, the threat is now over, cant shoot 'em in the back just because they whooped your arse and stole your personals. At this point, you need to be a better witness. Either way, this is an ugly scenario.

    IIRC: in a few states, you could still shoot them, under the "prevent the escape of a felon" clause.

    Of course, you could always claim one of the said something like "Should we finish him off?" before you opened fire.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    If it's legal to do so, necessary or not, I'd like to do what I can to prevent bad people from threatening the lives of anyone else in the future. Once a person threatens or takes the life of an innocent person, they've given up their right to their own life.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    If it's legal to do so, necessary or not, I'd like to do what I can to prevent bad people from threatening the lives of anyone else in the future. Once a person threatens or takes the life of an innocent person, they've given up their right to their own life.
    Several thoughts:
    1) You'll have nightmares from the beating, but you'll probably suffer worse if you kill someone (or several). Some folks seem to get through it OK, but others are haunted by it.
    2) If you get mugged once, why set yourself up to be mugged by an ambitious DA or your own lawyer's fee schedule?
    3) Removing bad guys from society is not the job of the vigilante, but is a corporate thing: ancient Israel had their elders, we've got LEO. Taking things into your own hands, regardless of legality, is questionable ethically ("Do no murder" is one of the Big Ten).
    4) Not sure about giving up rights: you seem to be saying that all of the folks convicted of assault with a deadly weapon should be executed. Maybe so... but it's a lot cleaner if their life is taken in the immediate defense of your life rather than a shot in the back.

    All of the above notwithstanding, I sure understand your viewpoint, and share much of your righteous anger at the lawless. I am comforted that God promises that they'll get what's coming to them... and He's a lot better at dishing it out than I am!

  8. #22
    Member Array Cyklopz's Avatar
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    Yes, while it might have become cliche' always try to keep your strong arm free at all times. Might point out "gun carrier" to some but it also just makes you better able to respond. Then again. some times you just are in the wrong place at the wrong time. This speaks to getting advanced training if at all possible at some point in your life. Paranoid...maybe, prepared...certainly better than nothing. If its your time then be glad you were by yourself and no SA was around as well.

    Cy

  9. #23
    Member Array TRICKORMATE's Avatar
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    YouTube - Elevator fight

    some lessons of what to do.

    YouTube - Gun Defence

  10. #24
    Member Array buzzgum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Some of the scenarios on this forum ARE thought provoking...some, well...

    Let's say your on an elevator...you're wearing a straightjacket...17 BG's with machine guns and terrorist bomb vests get on the same elevator...8 of them also pull knives and put them to your neck...you suddenly realize that you left your pistol in the car, but you do have a pen knife in your left shoe...
    What would you do?


    Respectfully submitted, of course...
    That is a scenario for the Mall Ninja!

  11. #25
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    The killer was SIXTO, in the elevator, with a knife.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array MilitaryPower's Avatar
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    Those videos are stupid and will get you killed IMO. You don't just disarm somebody like that. Distraction, surprise, and SPEED is what you need. The first two are almost the same. If you were holding a gun on somebody, do you think you could pull the trigger before they were able to get the gun? I would hope so. The person holding the gun needs to be thinking of something besides the gun pointing at you. He needs to have his attention away from the finger/trigger relationship and the process (and need) of pulling it. If you rely on speed to save you, goodbye. 9 times out of 10, you will get shot unless you are REALLY, REALLY FAST. Speed comes with training but you still need the other two parts if you are going to have a chance. Surprise goes hand and hand with distraction and speed. Not only do you need to be fast, but it needs to be unexpected. You need to be in action in less than a second at the time when they don't expect you too. Like dropping your wallet, or in the millisecond you see the gun. Don't hesitate. It should be like Gu-action! Can't even finish the word "Gun" fast.

    It took me 4 seconds to put three rounds apiece in three targets at 5 feet from concealment (with my BUG, NOT my primary or it would have been faster). Fast, but not fast enough.

    Disarming a person with a knife is out of the question, unless you can see that you are miles ahead of the other guy in terms of speed, agility, hand strength, hand-eye coord., and willpower. You can't grab a knife blade like a gun barrel. I'd prefer facing a gun at really close range. Also remember that it isn't like the movies. They don't just drop when they are shot or stabbed unless the CNS is hit. Be prepared to fight somebody when they have bullet holes in them and are sliced open. They might not even feel it. Poor odds indeed.

    I don't care for those fancy moves, just get the barrel away from you. In a situation like that, I doubt you'd be able to do it "text book style". Get it away until you can make him not be able to point it at you again. Even pull the trigger and empty it if you have too. Strength on strength is not what you want (unless you are stronger than the other guy). Speed combined with a firm grip is ideal.

    As far as what I'd do? Assuming that I don't have either one hand in my pocket on the PPS or my primary hand free, here it goes; I'd give them all the money in my wallet, doing the wallet drop if I could. Maybe fake an asthma attack (I don't have asthma) and then attack. Of course take the leader with the gun first. I'd take the beating. I'd rather be beat up and them dead, then resisting when it wasn't "the right time" and ending up dead. If the guy is looking at my face, I would reach in my front pocket for the PPS. Keeping his (their) eyes off my hands is key. Also, the half dozen knives on me might come into play. Nasty stuff, and I would hate it, but I like living. You want my gun? Take it from my hands when you wrestle it away since I can't shoot three people at the same time. Or if it jams. But try to take my knife away, you will lose a couple fingers at the minimum.

    This is of course what I say I'd do while I'm currently sitting in the reclining chair. In real life, I don't know what I'd do, but I'd do it to live. And thinking like this is a start.
    Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" (Latin)- "If you want peace, prepare for war".

  13. #27
    Member Array TRICKORMATE's Avatar
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    go post militarypower..
    Read my story.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ed-1994-a.html

    Pictures in page 5 & 6

  14. #28
    Member Array Stryker's Avatar
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    The answer is obvious!!! The BG probably only has a 9mm so I would simply absorb his first 15 shots then pull my .45 and blow them away.

    I would probably seek some medical attention if I was out of bandaids :)

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    First thing I would do is pray. James Bond isn't real life and those guys use real bullets. Three BG's holding a gun on me in an elevator and you thing I am going to roll around and get my gun out fast enough to shoot all three before they can react? I want some of that stuff y'all are smoking.

    Just hope they don't kill you and try to remember what they look like so you can describe them to the police and identify them in a line-up. Some people watch too much TV.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Pull the pin strapped to the front of my class 4 vest and set off my satchel charge to destroy the enemy. Oh well, actually in this case I think their going to win, and I'd turn over my stuff unless things started getting worse. Then I'd draw and start shooting.
    Les Baer 45
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