Univeristy of Akron's "Defense Plan" Codename ALICE

Univeristy of Akron's "Defense Plan" Codename ALICE

This is a discussion on Univeristy of Akron's "Defense Plan" Codename ALICE within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My girlfriend is a student at the University of Akron. She just told me today that Campus Police are holding classes on how to deal ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32

Thread: Univeristy of Akron's "Defense Plan" Codename ALICE

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    687

    Univeristy of Akron's "Defense Plan" Codename ALICE

    My girlfriend is a student at the University of Akron. She just told me today that Campus Police are holding classes on how to deal with a shooter on school grounds.

    Basically they are telling the students that if they all throw their Laptops at the Shooter and then rush him that they will adequately eliminate the threat. They "demonstrate" how it is possible for a 5 girls to take down an Officer wielding a plastic gun.

    I think this is the Dumbest idea I have ever heard of. They fail to mention the fact that the first couple of kids will undoubtedly get shot in the process. If they really wanted to make the students safer all they need to do is allow Faculty and Students to CC.

    The door of a college classroom and the nearest desk are about 10 feet apart. If a gunman who is already agitated comes in and has a book thrown at him and people start rushing him. This will either scare him into shooting or it will anger him to the pooint of shooting everyone. That 10 feet is a lot of distance to close while dodging bullets.

    I wish I could see this demonstration that the Campus Police do. I'm sure the officer was not being very combative.

    This is very upsetting because it seems the higherups would rather Sacrifice students lives while giving the students a false sense of security then deal with the politics of allowing students to CC and adequately defend themselves.

    I'm pretty sure 10 bullets would be a whole heck of a lot more effective than 10 students. Not to mention less collateral damage.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    AKRON -- The days of college students being frozen in panic while a shooter takes aim are over. At least, that's the idea behind a new hands-on program now being taught to students at the University of Akron.

    ALICE -- Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Counter, and Evacuate -- is the latest buzz phrase on campus as students and staff look to be ready should someone begin taking aim on campus.

    "Law enforcement is not the true first responders in an incident like this," said Sgt. Chad Cunningham, University of Akron Police. "It's actually the students, faculty and staff that might be in that classroom."

    Cunningham's training encourages would-be victims to avoid the urge to hide under a desk or just freeze and to instead take aim at the suspect with whatever they can throw. Hopefully, the shooter is disrupted enough that students can then swarm the bad guy by grabbing each of his limbs and pinning him to the ground. If possible, secure the weapon while someone calls for help. Meanwhile, those not involved in the take-down evacuate immediately.

    Those who took the training Monday at Kolbe Hall said it was a worthwhile experience, both physically and mentally.

    "If that happened to me, I would probably throw whatever is on my desk and then run at (the shooter)," said freshman Patsy Kozlowski. "Distract him and then like grab on to his leg and pull him down."

    Kozlowski and four other female students tackled Cunningham as he came at them with a plastic gun. The idea was to show that when students work together, even the smallest of people can subdue the largest of killers.

    "I've always wondered what would happen if someone barged in on a class," said Freshman Katie Lowe. "I wouldn't really know how to act until now."

    So far, nearly 600 students and staff have completed ALICE training, which includes getting them to think differently every time they come to campus, Cunningham said.

    "Changing their mindset from a mindset they've been taught since they were in grade school," he said. "Changing it to a 'survival' mindset of how to deal with it, how to counter it, and how to have options to deal with a situation like Virginia Tech."


    WKYC.com | Cleveland, OH | Akron college students take aim at campus shooters
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,681
    Student carry is a long ways away...glad to see the school is attempting to provide some thought and training as many do not.

    Your comment though is aprapo on the day of 9/11 when a couple of passengers armed with their fists rushed 9 hijackers...and saved the Capitol/White House.

    Rick

  3. #3
    wpk
    wpk is offline
    Member Array wpk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    283
    UAPD has always been clueless. I was one of the medics on scene a few years ago when that disgruntled janitor was running around campus with a bag of guns and then holed himself up in a bathroom for a few hours. He didn't shoot anyone but threatened a bunch of people. UAPD had no idea what was going on...btw, did you know they have a SWAT team? They looked like ghostbusters in their gray jumpsuits. They didn't do anything but stand back and let the real SWAT guys take care of the guy, and take care of him they did. 18 GSW to the badguy when he came out with his gun aimed at the officers...man, that was a bloody mess I had to take to the hospital. But anyways...don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but here the University police are more like babysitters than actual law enforcement, I've had several unpleasant run-ins with them while on duty.

    As for throwing books at an armed BG? Yeah...have fun with that.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    3,468
    If a gunman who is already agitated comes in and has a book thrown at him and people start rushing him. This will either scare him into shooting or it will anger him to the pooint of shooting everyone. That 10 feet is a lot of distance to close while dodging bullets.
    Dude, that's the BG's intent from the outset. With the publicity on active-shooter response teams no "distraught individual" is going to "take hostages" on a campus. They know, when the firearm is seen, their arse is toast.

    Buy yourself a cup, and 3 layers of sweats, and do some FOF with your GF. Inititaive is the key to success. Yeah, someone is probably going to get shot...but most GSWs are survivable. The campus PD are correct- you're more likely to survive with active agressive intent vs. sitting and waiting for the lottery.

    Have her get with the girls in field & track- see if she can play with a 4# discus. Learn to throw that weight Frisbee-fashion effectively, and she can certainly fugger a BG's OODA loop.

    Before any of that, I would recommend picking up and reading (for both of you) Dan Korem's Rage of the Random Actor.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    McKinney, TX
    Posts
    3,507
    If a BG comes in with the intent to kill, someone will die. But if there are those who, knowing this fact, are willing to put themselves in the way long enough for others behind them to take out the threat, then great and we will honor their courage and dedication to the lives of their classmates.

    I agree colleges should allow staff and any student who can obtain a CHL to carry, however far off that is. But in the mean time something is better than having everyone cower in a huddle, thus making a larger target.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fl
    Posts
    2,391
    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Your comment though is aprapo on the day of 9/11 when a couple of passengers armed with their fists rushed 9 hijackers...and saved the Capitol/White House.
    God bless them, but they all died.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Nassau, NY(Long Island)
    Posts
    2,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    God bless them, but they all died.
    Do you think they rushed them or We shot the plane down?

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    McKinney, TX
    Posts
    3,507
    Quote Originally Posted by HITCH KING View Post
    Do you think they rushed them or We shot the plane down?
    I would like to beleive that they sacrificed themselves, knowing they were going to die, to prevent further loss. I think deep down most humans would do this, which is why you hear stories of Teachers using their bodies to guard students or Soldiers throwing themselves on grenades or First Responders running towards danger while everyone else is running away from it.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  9. #9
    Senior Moderator
    Array MattInFla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,863
    Quote Originally Posted by HITCH KING View Post
    Do you think they rushed them or We shot the plane down?
    There is zero evidence the plane was "shot down". To the contrary, the cockpit voice recorders clearly captured the scum who hijacked the aircraft discussing crashing it before the passengers managed to get into the cockpit.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    1,126
    I think the Akron plan is a step in the right direction.

    The reality is that guns won't be allowed in schools in most states any time soon.

    I agree that allowing people to be armed in the school is the answer but just think for a minute about what would have happened if at Virginia Tech, the students rushed the shooter instead of diving under their desks.

    The answer is that the death toll would most likely be much lower and those who died would have died as heros instead of victims and those who lived would also be heros instead of victims.

    If I'm going to die, I would much rather die while trying to stop the treat than to be executed as I hide under a desk.

    This isn't meant to slam anyone, just the cold hard realities of life.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Agreed Paul.
    The action(s), and potential sacrifice, of a few can save many.

    There are no guarantees in life, living, nor death. Being shot is not an instant death result 100% of the time. And for those who might be shot/stabbed in such an ALICE scenario toward slowing if not stopping an intruder would be buying their fellow classmates and possibly even the authorities time to react and maybe even counteract that of the attacker(s).

    Yes the ALICE plan has holes and is somewhat inadequate.
    But, it's far better than doing nothing at all or hiding under desks hoping for Scotty to beam them up and make a person invisible before the bullets start flying.

    - Janq

    "Changing their mindset from a mindset they've been taught since they were in grade school. Changing it to a 'survival' mindset of how to deal with it, how to counter it, and how to have options..." - Sgt. Chad Cunningham, University of Akron Police
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #12
    Member Array Napolean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    88
    Armed or unarmed, dying like a sheep is no way to die. Maybe this is a step in the right direction for campus CC. I am sure that several of the participants in this little pow-wow are thinking about how they could be better protected in the future if they were properly armed with at least something more than a book.

  13. #13
    Member Array kohburn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lusby, MD
    Posts
    210
    atleast they are encouraging the thought of self defense instead of cower and cry.

    its a step int he right direction imo
    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    1,123
    Quote Originally Posted by kohburn View Post
    atleast they are encouraging the thought of self defense instead of cower and cry.

    its a step int he right direction imo
    agreed.
    THe next step can be called Alice as well
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    St. Charles County Missouri
    Posts
    991
    I bet the people doing the training don't have any kids enrolled at the U of Akron. Enroll in a college on-line - one that is accredited - and stay armed at your computer. Or, find a college that allows CC.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
    - Winston Churchill
    Endowment Life Member - NRA
    Life Member - GOA
    Member - Oath Keepers, SAF, CCRKBA
    U.S. Army (72G) 1975-1980

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Johnny Depp to play Mad Hatter in "Alice In Wonderland"
    By ccw9mm in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: December 5th, 2009, 11:48 PM
  2. My "plan" criticism encouraged
    By nosights in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: December 26th, 2008, 09:45 PM
  3. "Have a plan to kill everyone you meet"--from Fox News: MERGED
    By SIGguy229 in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: July 17th, 2008, 11:47 AM
  4. "Parole officer gives teen vest": Akron Beacon-Journal
    By Sky Pilot in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: July 23rd, 2006, 06:26 PM

Search tags for this page

alice codename
,
alice university of akron chad cunningham
,

chad cunningham akron

,

chad cunningham alice

,
chad cunningham ccw
,
chad cunningham university of akron
,
lt chad chunningham
,
lt chad cunningham
,

lt. chad cunningham

,

patsy kozlowski

,
patsy kozlowski on twitter
,

university of akron concealed carry

Click on a term to search for related topics.