Univeristy of Akron's "Defense Plan" Codename ALICE

[dsee11789]

My girlfriend is a student at the University of Akron. She just told me today that Campus Police are holding classes on how to deal with a shooter on school grounds.

Basically they are telling the students that if they all throw their Laptops at the Shooter and then rush him that they will adequately eliminate the threat. They "demonstrate" how it is possible for a 5 girls to take down an Officer wielding a plastic gun.

I think this is the Dumbest idea I have ever heard of. They fail to mention the fact that the first couple of kids will undoubtedly get shot in the process. If they really wanted to make the students safer all they need to do is allow Faculty and Students to CC.

The door of a college classroom and the nearest desk are about 10 feet apart. If a gunman who is already agitated comes in and has a book thrown at him and people start rushing him. This will either scare him into shooting or it will anger him to the pooint of shooting everyone. That 10 feet is a lot of distance to close while dodging bullets.

I wish I could see this demonstration that the Campus Police do. I'm sure the officer was not being very combative.

This is very upsetting because it seems the higherups would rather Sacrifice students lives while giving the students a false sense of security then deal with the politics of allowing students to CC and adequately defend themselves.

I'm pretty sure 10 bullets would be a whole heck of a lot more effective than 10 students. Not to mention less collateral damage.

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AKRON -- The days of college students being frozen in panic while a shooter takes aim are over. At least, that's the idea behind a new hands-on program now being taught to students at the University of Akron.

ALICE -- Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Counter, and Evacuate -- is the latest buzz phrase on campus as students and staff look to be ready should someone begin taking aim on campus.

"Law enforcement is not the true first responders in an incident like this," said Sgt. Chad Cunningham, University of Akron Police. "It's actually the students, faculty and staff that might be in that classroom."

Cunningham's training encourages would-be victims to avoid the urge to hide under a desk or just freeze and to instead take aim at the suspect with whatever they can throw. Hopefully, the shooter is disrupted enough that students can then swarm the bad guy by grabbing each of his limbs and pinning him to the ground. If possible, secure the weapon while someone calls for help. Meanwhile, those not involved in the take-down evacuate immediately.

Those who took the training Monday at Kolbe Hall said it was a worthwhile experience, both physically and mentally.

"If that happened to me, I would probably throw whatever is on my desk and then run at (the shooter)," said freshman Patsy Kozlowski. "Distract him and then like grab on to his leg and pull him down."

Kozlowski and four other female students tackled Cunningham as he came at them with a plastic gun. The idea was to show that when students work together, even the smallest of people can subdue the largest of killers.

"I've always wondered what would happen if someone barged in on a class," said Freshman Katie Lowe. "I wouldn't really know how to act until now."

So far, nearly 600 students and staff have completed ALICE training, which includes getting them to think differently every time they come to campus, Cunningham said.

"Changing their mindset from a mindset they've been taught since they were in grade school," he said. "Changing it to a 'survival' mindset of how to deal with it, how to counter it, and how to have options to deal with a situation like Virginia Tech."

WKYC.com | Cleveland, OH | Akron college students take aim at campus shooters

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[bandit383]

Student carry is a long ways away...glad to see the school is attempting to provide some thought and training as many do not.

Your comment though is aprapo on the day of 9/11 when a couple of passengers armed with their fists rushed 9 hijackers...and saved the Capitol/White House.

Rick

[wpk]

UAPD has always been clueless. I was one of the medics on scene a few years ago when that disgruntled janitor was running around campus with a bag of guns and then holed himself up in a bathroom for a few hours. He didn't shoot anyone but threatened a bunch of people. UAPD had no idea what was going on...btw, did you know they have a SWAT team? They looked like ghostbusters in their gray jumpsuits. They didn't do anything but stand back and let the real SWAT guys take care of the guy, and take care of him they did. 18 GSW to the badguy when he came out with his gun aimed at the officers...man, that was a bloody mess I had to take to the hospital. But anyways...don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but here the University police are more like babysitters than actual law enforcement, I've had several unpleasant run-ins with them while on duty.

As for throwing books at an armed BG? Yeah...have fun with that.

[Rob72]

If a gunman who is already agitated comes in and has a book thrown at him and people start rushing him. This will either scare him into shooting or it will anger him to the pooint of shooting everyone. That 10 feet is a lot of distance to close while dodging bullets.

Dude, that's the BG's intent from the outset. With the publicity on active-shooter response teams no "distraught individual" is going to "take hostages" on a campus. They know, when the firearm is seen, their arse is toast.

Buy yourself a cup, and 3 layers of sweats, and do some FOF with your GF. Inititaive is the key to success. Yeah, someone is probably going to get shot...but most GSWs are survivable. The campus PD are correct- you're more likely to survive with active agressive intent vs. sitting and waiting for the lottery.

Have her get with the girls in field & track- see if she can play with a 4# discus. Learn to throw that weight Frisbee-fashion effectively, and she can certainly fugger a BG's OODA loop.

Before any of that, I would recommend picking up and reading (for both of you) Dan Korem's Rage of the Random Actor.

[Paco]

If a BG comes in with the intent to kill, someone will die. But if there are those who, knowing this fact, are willing to put themselves in the way long enough for others behind them to take out the threat, then great and we will honor their courage and dedication to the lives of their classmates.

I agree colleges should allow staff and any student who can obtain a CHL to carry, however far off that is. But in the mean time something is better than having everyone cower in a huddle, thus making a larger target.

[Guns and more]

Your comment though is aprapo on the day of 9/11 when a couple of passengers armed with their fists rushed 9 hijackers...and saved the Capitol/White House.

God bless them, but they all died.

[HKinNY]

God bless them, but they all died.

Do you think they rushed them or We shot the plane down?

[Paco]

Do you think they rushed them or We shot the plane down?

I would like to beleive that they sacrificed themselves, knowing they were going to die, to prevent further loss. I think deep down most humans would do this, which is why you hear stories of Teachers using their bodies to guard students or Soldiers throwing themselves on grenades or First Responders running towards danger while everyone else is running away from it.

[MattInFla]

Do you think they rushed them or We shot the plane down?

There is zero evidence the plane was "shot down". To the contrary, the cockpit voice recorders clearly captured the scum who hijacked the aircraft discussing crashing it before the passengers managed to get into the cockpit.

Matt

[PaulG]

I think the Akron plan is a step in the right direction.

The reality is that guns won't be allowed in schools in most states any time soon.

I agree that allowing people to be armed in the school is the answer but just think for a minute about what would have happened if at Virginia Tech, the students rushed the shooter instead of diving under their desks.

The answer is that the death toll would most likely be much lower and those who died would have died as heros instead of victims and those who lived would also be heros instead of victims.

If I'm going to die, I would much rather die while trying to stop the treat than to be executed as I hide under a desk.

This isn't meant to slam anyone, just the cold hard realities of life.

[Janq]

Agreed Paul.
The action(s), and potential sacrifice, of a few can save many.

There are no guarantees in life, living, nor death. Being shot is not an instant death result 100% of the time. And for those who might be shot/stabbed in such an ALICE scenario toward slowing if not stopping an intruder would be buying their fellow classmates and possibly even the authorities time to react and maybe even counteract that of the attacker(s).

Yes the ALICE plan has holes and is somewhat inadequate.
But, it's far better than doing nothing at all or hiding under desks hoping for Scotty to beam them up and make a person invisible before the bullets start flying.

- Janq

"Changing their mindset from a mindset they've been taught since they were in grade school. Changing it to a 'survival' mindset of how to deal with it, how to counter it, and how to have options..." - Sgt. Chad Cunningham, University of Akron Police

[Napolean]

Armed or unarmed, dying like a sheep is no way to die. Maybe this is a step in the right direction for campus CC. I am sure that several of the participants in this little pow-wow are thinking about how they could be better protected in the future if they were properly armed with at least something more than a book.

[kohburn]

atleast they are encouraging the thought of self defense instead of cower and cry.

its a step int he right direction imo

[dunndw]

atleast they are encouraging the thought of self defense instead of cower and cry.

its a step int he right direction imo

agreed.
THe next step can be called Alice as well

[walvord]

I bet the people doing the training don't have any kids enrolled at the U of Akron. Enroll in a college on-line - one that is accredited - and stay armed at your computer. Or, find a college that allows CC.