Threatened with knife

[Thumper]

That girl really needs to find a new boyfriend! What a loser!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[JudoJake]

Good and well written advice Slimz13.

[KenInColo]

That girl really needs to find a new boyfriend! What a loser!

+1

She's really gonna regret it someday soon.

[MitchellCT]

Very sound advice. I personally would still feel it counterproductive to draw unless I had already decided to kill the man (in this particular scenario), simply because the type of aggressor and his actions so far shows that the the only thing he's really interested in is not losing face.

Drunks are too unpredictable and can move too fast.

He has ability, has shown intent and has opportunity. You cannot retreat.

If you are going to do something, you had better do it. Otherwise, you will be vastly behind the curve and instead of shooting from your back, you will end up in a knife & gun grapple which can REAL be fun...

[ccw9mm]

... his actions so far shows that the the only thing he's really interested in is not losing face.

That's an assumption that get get you killed. A knife's in play. Death is knocking. You're either going to be prepared to stop it, or you're going to be resting all hopes on the psychology of the moment.

[youngda9]

I personally would still feel it counterproductive to draw unless I had already decided to kill the man

You draw to stop the threat(that means shoot to stop the threat, not shoot to kill, and not draw to threaten the guy threatening you). If he happens to die as a result of his actions, than so be it. This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum, on the internet, and in many books(read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Ayoob).

If, during your draw, the guy backs off, drops the knife, or pees himself and runs away than there would be no need to shoot. Your draw to shoot times will probably be fast enough that this isn't the case though.

If it's worth taking out of the holster(which it DEFINETLY is in this situation), than it's worth using.

[micahsrad]

A simple answer is don't go to parties where everyone is drinking. If you do and you carry you are not that bright. Getting into a fight where there are knives and guns involved and the two that are fighting are slinging blades and bullets around are usually not the ones that get hurt. You can what if all of these scenarios to death. I was told once that in a fight of any type you will perform half as good and twice as fast as your current level of training. I don't mean to cause conflict but it bugs me to hear I would put my right hand here and my left hand here and then I would punch here then shoot there while looking for cover and checking my background. It really doesn't work that way and you are not setting yourself up for success thinking that it will. Train hard and train often. Some people are built to handle conflict well and some people are not. When the day comes (and I hope it doesn't for anyone) you will find out if you are or not. I hope that I didn't piss anyone off........Micah

[MitchellCT]

That girl really needs to find a new boyfriend!

As long as it isn't YOU, that's fine.

Not to be down on your friend, but it appears she has bad taste in men and you will have to deal with the trashy ex's.

[Hopyard]

Just curious. With all those witnesses around, were the police called?

They should have been immediately after the incident. The punk belongs in jail.

Simple battery.

Assault with a deadly weapon, and with intent to do grave bodily harm.

That is, assuming this really was out of the blue and the op's friend really had done nothing at all to provoke, was sober, and just talking to an old friend.

Somehow, I don't really think that was the full picture. My guess, all were drunk. OP's friend ignored some sort of suggestion by his antagonist that he should leave the girl alone, and the fight was on.

In a situation like this, deadly force used in self defense is likely not legally defensible. You can't be part of an altercation from which you could have walked away, and then claim self-defense.

Again, my guess, the OP's friend was more provocative than he needed to be.

Of course, I could be wrong. Since there were witnesses, it should have been a no brainer to call the cops. The fact that they were not called suggests to me that someone wasn't entirely sober or innocent.

[Thanis]

I've been to parties like that. Often, the cops will drag you in and the person who attacked you. They will get you on something (and maybe a few others).

I've never done drugs, but I was an underage drinker. People put themselves (esp when younger) into a very dangerous mix.

When I was younger, and before I carried, someone was messing with me (stranger hitting me with a pool stick every time I went to shoot). I ended up breaking a pool stick on his shoulder and yelled at him to "bring it" or something = as stupid. The guy lifted up his sweatshirt showing me he had a gun and asked, "you want some." I said "No" and my friends and I just walked out and went to another bar.

IMO your friend put himself in a bad situation.

If this happened to me on the street or at park now (guy pushes me down) I would pull a gun, tell him to drop to the ground, shoot him if he made any aggressive action, call the police either way.

But if I CC, I'm not drinking. So with out a gun, I get out of the situation, call the cops.

However, given your friends situation, you can't win IMO. Even when I was 16 - 19 at a field party, I was always aware that I was taking a chance, as you can't be sure of the elements involved. I left a few parties because I did not like the crowd. Sometimes you don't really know what the crowd is like until the SHTF.

I'm rambling, but I remember situations I was in or witnessed like the one your friend was in. Often, you are just lucky to get out with your teeth still in place.

[Slabsides45]

My bet is that virtually everyone here, at some point, has been at a party talking to a girl and lost situational awareness. We've all sinned and fall short. So, I won't say "A) I'd never go there, and B) I'da shot him..." Frankly, I've been in that spot (as a much younger bulletproof man) several times more than I'd care to admit.

So if I'd been there, and unarmed, as I am supposing he was, I'd have done what he did-avoid escalation of the incident to the point of bloodshed (especially mine!). If he'd come at me, I would have fought from the ground while subtly suggesting to the casual onlooker that someone might entertain the thought of calling on law enforcement to intervene. Rather get my legs cut up than my head. I was in the service, and was trained on HTH, but in real life we seldom perform as the drill told us to. It's usually quite a bit more cumbersome. We're thinking pro football moves, and look like pee wee.

Nowadays, I DEFINITELY would have avoided this party. If pushed, I'd be very unhappy. If he brandished a knife, I'd be fully within my rights in MS to pull my sidearm in self defense. At that point, Lord help us both.

[Slimz13]

That's an assumption that get get you killed. A knife's in play. Death is knocking. You're either going to be prepared to stop it, or you're going to be resting all hopes on the psychology of the moment.

True enough. I think my armchair analyst is getting the better of me here. I have had more than situation or two like happen to me personally that I was able get out of without bloodshed. That however, is the lucky exception. More often than not your choice is binary. Win or die. Compromise is not a word that belongs in a survival situation.

[nn]

I suspect guns are off limits by Nc law, though the details of the party were left out. IE: beer?
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19-25 not many permit there

[jonesy_26]

Reading the responses on this have me laughing a bit....not only is the age group for the party very non-compliant with the CCW demographic, alot of folks are viewing this through their very adult, situationally aware, tactical mindset. A party like that doesn't even sound appealing to most of us now.

Everyone take a deep breath and remember what it was like to be that age again..............parties like that were FUN. Most of us would have dropped everything to make that party, and would have enjoyed ourselves thoroughly. If you never partied as a college aged kid, you may have missed out on some good times. A few years into the "real" world working a career job cured me of most of that having to get up early every day. Having a family took care of what was left. But it was a fun time in my life.

Yeah scary things can happen, fights break out at events like these. What can you do at that age? Nothing really. Just be careful like Mom said. If a kid in that age group is mature enough to have a CCW, he's probably not going to be at that party anyways. Thinking about it, I don't know if I would have carried to a party like that regardless...alcohol and drugs and lots of people. Its a generator for bad situations. Taking a gun somewhere I know there is a high probability I may have to use it would not look good afterwords. I would go and enjoy myself as best as could be, or stay home.

[KenInColo]

Just curious. With all those witnesses around, were the police called?

They should have been immediately after the incident. The punk belongs in jail.

Simple battery.

Assault with a deadly weapon, and with intent to do grave bodily harm.

That is, assuming this really was out of the blue and the op's friend really had done nothing at all to provoke, was sober, and just talking to an old friend.

Somehow, I don't really think that was the full picture. My guess, all were drunk. OP's friend ignored some sort of suggestion by his antagonist that he should leave the girl alone, and the fight was on.

In a situation like this, deadly force used in self defense is likely not legally defensible. You can't be part of an altercation from which you could have walked away, and then claim self-defense.

Again, my guess, the OP's friend was more provocative than he needed to be.

Of course, I could be wrong. Since there were witnesses, it should have been a no brainer to call the cops. The fact that they were not called suggests to me that someone wasn't entirely sober or innocent.

+1, especially the part that I 'bolded'.

One of the elements for the use of deadly force is already present (the drawing of the knife).

Another element necessary for the claim of self defense is to be totally blameless i.e. you may not have instigated or escalated the incident or you must have broken off the combat and your antagonist must have re initiated it [combat].