So I'm loading my Mossberg . . . .
This is a discussion on So I'm loading my Mossberg . . . . within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I too am on the side of "Refuse to be a victim under any circumstance."
Lights on, 911 already called and phone is with me, ...
October 4th, 2008 10:14 AM
I too am on the side of "Refuse to be a victim under any circumstance."
Lights on, 911 already called and phone is with me, approach with tac light on and in their faces (cover available), weapon at low ready "You are trespassing, that is not yours, the police have been called, LEAVE NOW!"
The ball is in their court now. My state law empowers me to stop the commission of a felony (theft value of $500+ in this case) up to and including the use of force. Hazy gray area around detaining them at gunpoint waiting for the LEOs and kidnapping, hope I don't get the last round of rookies as first responders.
Hit my limit for speculation, the sky is falling, and gun owners fighting amongst themselves.
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!
October 4th, 2008 10:14 AM
October 15th, 2008 12:43 AM
call 911, and become very aware of my surroundings and gather my family in a safe room with my 12 gauge and 9mm on my hip and pray that all they want is my trailer.
October 15th, 2008 02:44 AM
In most states (clearly not Texas!), it is not legal to use lethal force to defend property. If you exit your home with weapon trained on the scumbags and gunfire ensues - you are in a very deep pile of excrement. Your clear intent was to prevent a theft of property, and your intent was to use deadly force to do so at the outset. Until you left the house, you weren't in jeopardy. No jeopardy = no legal use of lethal force. This precise situation happened in Spokane, WA, a couple years ago, and the guy who did the shooting (not the scumbag) is now in jail.
No, it isn't fair.
If you come out of the building to investigate what's going on, but weapon holstered or at least pointed in a safe direction, you would have be fine. If the BG's escalate at that point, you are in jeopardy and lethal force is justified to defend your person. Just not your property.
October 15th, 2008 09:42 AM
God bless Texas!
October 19th, 2008 05:27 AM
To those who say confronting an thief would bring charges of escalation; One has the right, power and authority to confront and detain thieves on your property. One would also be prudent to cover them with a shotgun and order them to the ground. The only three places in the U.S. where you would get in trouble for this, even if the three thieves tried you and you shoot, is San Francisco, New York and Chicago.
I would probably open up with a round in the thieves front tire just to make the introductions.
Here in Northern Virginia an illegal alien was looking through a letter slot in a door. The neighbor saw this and ordered the illegal, at shootgun point, to lay on the ground. Illegal complied, police show up and arrest illegal. Illegal was charged with peeping, but was probably casing the home for a burrglary.
I have lived in Florida, Ohio and Virginia. Before any of the Castle Doctrine laws where passed. I have read about home owners and concerned neigbors detaining prowlers/thieves at gunpoint my whole life in every place I have ever lived. In the vast majority of these cases the offender complies and gets arrested by the police. Sometimes the offenders rush the citizen and get shot. I have never read of these citizens being prosocuted. Quite to the contrary the police say things that include words like bravery, bad, guy, off, and street.
I challenge any of you who say to call 911 and watch your stuff drive away, never to be seen again, to find and post here a few stories that ended in a manslaughter or murder conviction or even a prosocution. For every one such you find you will be literaly wading through the reports of the incidents where the perps are held for the police.
Armed Homeowner Confronts Trailer Thieves|ABC24-CW30 Eyewitness News | Memphis, TN
Armed Homeowner Confronts Trailer Thieves
This is a news release issued by the Shelby County Sheriff’s Office:
Sheriff’s detectives say a Rosemark man held two thieves at gunpoint who tried to steal a utility trailer from his front yard yesterday. Detectives believe the suspects may also be responsible for stealing other utility trailers.
About 11:30 yesterday morning, Steven Rutter, 57, who lives in the 8700 block of Rosemark Road in north Shelby County, heard a vehicle slow down in front of his house. Rutter saw a gray Dodge Ram pickup truck back into his front yard.
Two men then began hooking up Rutter’s utility trailer to the pickup truck. Detectives say Rutter got his pistol and confronted the two men. Initially, Jessie Brown, 51, of Munford and Kelvin Nathaniel, 45, of Drummonds, told Rutter a neighbor said they could use the trailer to move some hay.
Rutter didn’t believe their story and called for Deputies. Moments later, Brown and Nathaniel were taken into custody. Both were charged with Theft of Property.
Detectives say the investigation is continuing and the suspects may be responsible for other utility trailer thefts in Shelby and neighboring counties.
Homeowner Guns Down MWC Burglary Suspect - Oklahoma City News Story - KOCO Oklahoma City
MIDWEST CITY, Okla. -- Authorities said a homeowner shot and killed a burglary suspect after a confrontation in a rural Midwest City neighborhood.
VIDEO: MWC Burglary Suspect Shot, Killed
MIDWEST CITY, Okla. -- Authorities said a homeowner shot and killed a burglary suspect after a confrontation in a rural Midwest City neighborhood. Oklahoma County Sheriff's spokesman Mark Myers said the resident told deputies he spotted a man breaking into a large shed on his property and confronted him about 2:30 p.m. Thursday. When the suspect got into his car and tried to flee, the homeowner said he stepped in front of the vehicle to prevent the man from leaving.
The homeowner said he fired one shot from a shotgun as the suspected burglar lunged toward him in his car.
Myers said the man died at the scene. The names of the victim and the shooter were not immediately released.
Houston area storage owner shoots at would-be thieve | CRIME | KHOU.com | News for Houston, Texas
Portland homeowner shoots suspected prowlers | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | News
SunJournal.com - Theft victim shoots up suspects' pickup truck
Business Owner Shoots Alleged Robbers
Albertville homeowner shoots backyard prowler - Breaking News from The Huntsville Times - al.com
I could keep posting these stories all night.
"The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness." -Robert A. Heinlein
October 19th, 2008 06:22 AM
Now im definitely moving to Texas.
Originally Posted by dukalmighty
I think here in NY if someone tries to steal your property you have to give it to them.
October 19th, 2008 12:24 PM
Well I live some distance from help from the LEO's so for the most part I am on my own. I have to just shake my head at all of the "it's just things, they can be replaced" While they can be replaced, has it ever occurred to those posters that maybe the person had to work and save for several years to buy that thing???? How many times do I read on this forum about a person who can not afford more than one gun, or can only afford to spend $150.00 for a CCW weapon to protect their life. For many of you, you may be in a financial situation to go out tomorrow and write the check for anything that got stolen. I would bet you are in the minority. And before you bring up the insurance thing, just to let you know, at my business our agent just called the other day to let me know that my deductible will be going to $25,000.00 so don't even go down that road.
Back on track---If they are driving around my property and I don't know them, I watch them. If they get out and start looking things over I call LEO and watch. If they take something small like a chain or small hand tool, such as a jack, I assume they might just need it, and I continue to watch while LEO is on the way.
Now if they are loading up ATV.s or cycles, trailers, or equipment, I know they are up to no good. Chances are very good their vehicle will encounter tire inflation issues or radiator and grill stress. I can write the check for those items, so now if I am causing damage to their property the law says " you can not use deadly force over property" so by law the BG's can not use force to protect their property that I am damaging. They would be the one now who would have to raise the bar and threaten me now, which the law allows me the ability to protect myself.
Chances are very good they would have no idea except for the muzzle flash where it was coming from. After stopping the vehicle, I would go back in the house and wait. If they want to leave with several flat tires or a low cooling system great for them. LEO should have no problem finding them.
My things, well they are exactly that------MY THINGS----- not theirs.
Final note for all that say turn the dogs loose---While I may be on your property, if your dog is trying to kill my, I am now in fear for my life, so if I use a base-ball bat on your dog and kill it, what do you think the law will do about it-----not jack poop, cause a dog is just property. My dogs are staying inside with my family where it's safe.
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
October 19th, 2008 12:57 PM
This is very true...
Originally Posted by SleepingZ
I am certainly able to investigate someone breaking into my backyard shed at 2 A.M.
Hopefully they will have a shovel, crowbar, knive, or gun in their hand...we will let police talk to the survivors and determine what the threat level really was...
"I heard noises, went into the back yard and this guy attacked me with some object...I feared for my life."
Stay armed...leave my things alone...stay safe!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
October 19th, 2008 04:24 PM
If you are in Idaho still. Idaho does have the Castle Doctrine and you can protect your possessions.
Originally Posted by caffeine
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
18-4009. JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE BY ANY PERSON. Homicide is also justifiable
when committed by any person in either of the following cases:
1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
2. When committed in defense of habitation, property or person, against
one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a
felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent,
riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the
purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or
husband, parent, child, master, mistress or servant of such person, when there
is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some
great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished;
but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was
the assailant or engaged in mortal combat, must really and in good faith have
endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed;
4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to
apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any
riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.
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