My Decision...Your Opinion

This is a discussion on My Decision...Your Opinion within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; i bought some foaming pepper spray for the disgruntled mutts, nasty nasty stuff...

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Thread: My Decision...Your Opinion

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Tyler11B's Avatar
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    i bought some foaming pepper spray for the disgruntled mutts, nasty nasty stuff
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    KY Concealed Carry Instructor
    Taser X2/X26 Instructor
    "It is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs. He does not have to…[he] is entitled to stand his ground, and meet any (life-threatening) attack made upon him with a deadly weapon…." Gibson v. KY, 34SW936(Ky.1931)

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    I think you did good. The only things I would have done different is roll up the window (you never know what he could have thrown at you) and my gun would have been removed from the holster and on my lap if not in my hand.

  4. #48
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISTER View Post
    Like already stated , it propbably would have been best to put the windows up at the first sign of trouble.
    I think its a gun owners responisbility to act like they would if not armed untill it becomes absolutly neccesary.

    Well said, and I agree.

    Biker

  5. #49
    Member Array henryher's Avatar
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    In Florida the State Attorney has interpreted some rulings for us:

    "Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. Thre must be an overt act by the person, which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out his threat. The person threatened must reasonly believe that he will be killed or suffer great bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of this adversary."

    "Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have ammunition, you will receive the mandatory three year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early."

    "A person has no duty to retreat in his lawfully occupied vehicle against a person who was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering or had unlawfully and forcefully entered an occupied vehicle or had unlawfully and forcefully removed or attemting to remove another against that person's will from the occupied vehicle."

    Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

    Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
    Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

    Using or displayinga handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, assault, manslaughter, or worse."
    "Government is not reason and it is not eloquence. It is force! Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."

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  6. #50
    Member Array omle54's Avatar
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    I understand why you did what you did. It does depend on what the laws are where you live. In Ohio even with the "castle doctorine" you must be in fear of severe physical harm or death to you or someone else before the introduction of deadly force. You can't do it for property. Having said that it even varies person to person what is severe physical harm for a lady that is 5' 1" tall and 100 lbs is different from a man that is 6'5" and 245 lbs. That also would depend on any disablilites. I do agree that I would have had my pistol located (still holstered) and uncovered and my hand on the gun ready to draw. Someone accosting you like that you can't be sure of mental state and capacity. I'm not sure just how far I'd gone before removing the M&P .357 sig from it's holster. Just really happy I didn't have to make that decision.

  7. #51
    Member Array joemess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    The first level of force, according to MP doctrine, is a show of force. It doesn't turn this situation into a physical one any more than the perp's provoking physical advances did. It is a deterrant to show that you're packing in this situation, IMHO.

    But I'm really bothered that nobody else thinks this is the case. Someone please help out here me.

    *What is the rule about a CCW being revealed--only when you're GOING to putt the trigger? Only when you MAY have to pull the trigger? Only when you May have to POINT IT at someone AND POSSIBLY PULL THE TRIGGER?

    I'm asking because I don't know--someone please help!


    that may be the MP doctrine, howeverit is apples and oranges to this situation. What you are advocating is considered brandishing and in effect, you are threatening the other party and in many places YOU can be arrested. You may have been an MP, but you are not one when you are off base....


    As to when to pull.... Yeah, I am not going to pull unless I am 90% sure I am preparing to fire. That other 10% is for the person that suddenly finds a pocket full of smarts and backs off.

    In this situation, I cannot imagine a case where you would come off in a positive light considering YOU are in a car that carries insurance for damage and he was on foot IF you shot him.

  8. #52
    Member Array joemess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    I'm not happy with that answer because it means that I have to believe that the guy who intends to beat me to a pulp will wind up KILLING me, as opposed to just beating me senseless. Since I cannot predict the future, I must admit that I could live through the beatdown, which means that I cannot unholster my weapon and either prevent the beatdown or deter the guy from commencing the beatdown.

    Is this what I have to live with??
    The way is was explained to me by the Sherrif that taught our course... Your actions must be viewed reasonable by an average man. IN other words, if all you are going to do is beat me up barehanded, I am going to do my best to give you a run for your money....but I am not going to kill you. If there are more than one attackers, things change. If a weapon is produced by the BG, things change even more....

    I am 6'3, 190 pounds and can run like the wind... Unless someone is threatening my family I am going to do wat is needed to retreat if at all possible.

  9. #53
    Member Array joemess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    Let's talk about the 21-foot Rule. I really didn't understand it the way it was described in CCW class. I heard the story and that we qualify at 21 ft because that was the farthest distance that someone could get you before you could get them with a CCW, but how does it relate to this situation, legally?

    Using the 21-ft Rule, does this mean that when the aggressive bum got within/crossed the 21 feet line that we can Legally, and really should draw and set up a possibly-necessary shot? When applying the 21-ft Rule, this seems to be the reason for the 21 feet, right??

    Help, please...
    no..... heck no......and finally..... good lord no....


    just because someone is within 21 feet of you, you do not have the right to draw and set up a possible shot. If this is your idea of the power that your CCW permit gives you, you may want to re think your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by henryher View Post
    In Florida the State Attorney has interpreted some rulings for us:

    "Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. Thre must be an overt act by the person, which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out his threat. The person threatened must reasonly believe that he will be killed or suffer great bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of this adversary."

    "Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have ammunition, you will receive the mandatory three year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early."

    "A person has no duty to retreat in his lawfully occupied vehicle against a person who was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering or had unlawfully and forcefully entered an occupied vehicle or had unlawfully and forcefully removed or attemting to remove another against that person's will from the occupied vehicle."

    Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

    Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
    Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

    Using or displayinga handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, assault, manslaughter, or worse."



    ^^^^^^+1

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