This is a real situation that happened to me before I had a CCP in the state. I think about what I would have done had I been carrying.
I was in Providence, RI at about 0100. I was the designated driver for a group of about 5 of my good friends. We were walking back to the car from a pizza place, and my friends were slightly intoxicated....not stumbling drunk, but they each had had a few. As we are walking the mile or so back to the car, a group of about 10 darkly dressed middle aged men stroll out of a all colored club. They seem to be following us about 50 feet back for the first 2 turns we make, so I tell my friends to increase speed and I notice they do the same. Eventually we had to stop at a dark intersection and wait for some traffic. ( I had already thought about continuing in a different direction or well lit area but there was none in sight and I did NOT want to get lost on these guys turf) By the time we were across the street, they were about 5 feet behind us, and the street was dark, no traffic, no peds besides us. One of them walks in front of us (I was point) and tells us to give them our pizza boxes. No big deal, a robbery of pizza. I tell my friends to give them the pizza and we will be on our way, so they put the pizza on the ground and we start to walk away, then I hear "why don't we get there wallets too!"....at this point one of the men started a fistfight with one of my buddys and backed him into an alley, and two more of my friends got into grappling/wrestling matches with others in the perp group in the street.
It looked to be a "normal" street brawl, but these were 6' 240 lb (est) guys weapons unknown, vs me and my friends, all 22-23 year olds 5'5 to 6' much smaller builds.
My question is this. Me and a few of my friends COULD have "retreated" to safety, meaning ran away. But my friend that was hit first was backing into a little alleyway, getting beat up pretty good. Another perp joined the first after about 2 minutes, and all the wrestling in the street had stopped and it was now just us 4 and about 8 of them standing, them egging there two friends on, and us trying to save our friend by pulling them off.
Now my confusion is this. I myself, could have retreated. BUT, my friend obviously could not. Would I have been justified to clear leather, issue commands, and fire if necessary? I was at the time in serious fear of my friends life, and also my own because of the 8 other perps around me. I would only have fired on the two putting my friends life in immenent danger, of course, and just help the rest if they hung around, for LEO. I'm just wondering what kind of idiotic case a DA could put together against me, since my friends were intoxicated (although I believe the other party was also) and I had means to retreat but did not. I saw that my friend had been hit first, but if all 8 of them testified that my friend had hit first, then I would have effectivly shot the "victim" in the situation...since my friend would have been the "agressor" and just as if I had started a fight, I cannot defend against it, correct?
Another thing I think about is, since I had no weapon, we can see what happened without it. My friend ended up having a few broken ribs, nose and some pretty bad cuts on his face/hands. But he did not die. I didn't know there intentions before hand so I still would have fired since they looked pretty determined, but that is how it ended.
Just doing a lot of thinking about it, makes me sad about the laws we currently have and how big the grey area is in defending ones own life.
I was in Providence, RI at about 0100. I was the designated driver for a group of about 5 of my good friends. We were walking back to the car from a pizza place, and my friends were slightly intoxicated....not stumbling drunk, but they each had had a few. As we are walking the mile or so back to the car, a group of about 10 darkly dressed middle aged men stroll out of a all colored club. They seem to be following us about 50 feet back for the first 2 turns we make, so I tell my friends to increase speed and I notice they do the same. Eventually we had to stop at a dark intersection and wait for some traffic. ( I had already thought about continuing in a different direction or well lit area but there was none in sight and I did NOT want to get lost on these guys turf) By the time we were across the street, they were about 5 feet behind us, and the street was dark, no traffic, no peds besides us. One of them walks in front of us (I was point) and tells us to give them our pizza boxes. No big deal, a robbery of pizza. I tell my friends to give them the pizza and we will be on our way, so they put the pizza on the ground and we start to walk away, then I hear "why don't we get there wallets too!"....at this point one of the men started a fistfight with one of my buddys and backed him into an alley, and two more of my friends got into grappling/wrestling matches with others in the perp group in the street.
It looked to be a "normal" street brawl, but these were 6' 240 lb (est) guys weapons unknown, vs me and my friends, all 22-23 year olds 5'5 to 6' much smaller builds.
My question is this. Me and a few of my friends COULD have "retreated" to safety, meaning ran away. But my friend that was hit first was backing into a little alleyway, getting beat up pretty good. Another perp joined the first after about 2 minutes, and all the wrestling in the street had stopped and it was now just us 4 and about 8 of them standing, them egging there two friends on, and us trying to save our friend by pulling them off.
Now my confusion is this. I myself, could have retreated. BUT, my friend obviously could not. Would I have been justified to clear leather, issue commands, and fire if necessary? I was at the time in serious fear of my friends life, and also my own because of the 8 other perps around me. I would only have fired on the two putting my friends life in immenent danger, of course, and just help the rest if they hung around, for LEO. I'm just wondering what kind of idiotic case a DA could put together against me, since my friends were intoxicated (although I believe the other party was also) and I had means to retreat but did not. I saw that my friend had been hit first, but if all 8 of them testified that my friend had hit first, then I would have effectivly shot the "victim" in the situation...since my friend would have been the "agressor" and just as if I had started a fight, I cannot defend against it, correct?
Another thing I think about is, since I had no weapon, we can see what happened without it. My friend ended up having a few broken ribs, nose and some pretty bad cuts on his face/hands. But he did not die. I didn't know there intentions before hand so I still would have fired since they looked pretty determined, but that is how it ended.
Just doing a lot of thinking about it, makes me sad about the laws we currently have and how big the grey area is in defending ones own life.