1 vs. 5 downtown -- criticism/advice welcome - Page 2

1 vs. 5 downtown -- criticism/advice welcome

This is a discussion on 1 vs. 5 downtown -- criticism/advice welcome within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; That is a problem I have with FL conceal carry laws. I understand the idea of not having guns in a place where alcohol is ...

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Thread: 1 vs. 5 downtown -- criticism/advice welcome

  1. #16
    Member Array henryher's Avatar
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    That is a problem I have with FL conceal carry laws. I understand the idea of not having guns in a place where alcohol is being served because alcohol and guns do not mix. But in FL for instance if you were going to go inside to look for your girlfriend you would not be able to bring a concealed weapon along. But I think near bars and nightclubs you would find a lot of muggers and punks looking to take cash from the bar goers.
    "Government is not reason and it is not eloquence. It is force! Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."

    George Washington


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    At least 80 lums would've helped out a little more.....but as already stated, you got outta the situation, retrieved your GF, and made it home to post it. Bravo Zulu.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risque007 View Post
    The leader automaticaly jumped back and yelled "No! He's got a gun!" and they all jumped back and ran off the other way.
    BG's know that some citizens are CCW though the thought may not be foremost in their minds as it should be. By the reaction above it looks like 5 guys suddenly realized that they were "outgunned" since they folded and retreated so quickly. One thing we'll never know is how many crimes never happened because BG's didn't want to chance a confrontation with an armed citizen.

    Good story and outcome, I think you did well by not looking/acting as if you were a sheep. How does the saying go.....criminals want victims, not opponents.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    The only thing I have issue with is the fact that you didn't actually have a gun. Had the situation escalated, you'd have likely been toast. Any particular reason why not?
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

    Theodore Roosevelt

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array briansmech's Avatar
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    good job. consider having mroe to go to than just a blade, though. a good hard light, asp, anything.

    one is none, two is one.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    The problem I see is, what if you HAD pulled your weapon and they saw that it was a blade and not a gun? Then what?

    I would not have been in that situation without a gun.
    Agreed on the what ifs regarding drawing a knife.

    I think you did very well...you came out unscathed right ! Great SA on your part, great use of your answers and your commanding voice and "I'm not taking any crap tonight" eye contact.

    Why no gun? Is it illegal to have a gun in a bar in your neck of the woods?

    Perhaps next time when walking the streets at night you should have someone escort you to escort your girlfriend. There is safety in numbers(that goes for us guys also)...a lesson for all of us.
    Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

  7. #22
    Member Array TRICKORMATE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    The problem I see is, what if you HAD pulled your weapon and they saw that it was a blade and not a gun? Then what?

    Could you have out ran them? Are you good enough in a knife fight to fend off five men?


    I would not have been in that situation without a gun. If I could not have had a gun with me, I would not have been there at all.
    I agree some what with your reponse, the only thing is that he had no choice but to be there to walk his GF. Imagine if he would have told his GF, "babe I don't have my gun so, just run fast to your car".

    I think he did a great job.
    Read my story.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ed-1994-a.html

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  8. #23
    Member Array Risque007's Avatar
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    The only thing I have issue with is the fact that you didn't actually have a gun. Had the situation escalated, you'd have likely been toast. Any particular reason why not?
    Hmm, doesn't my age show on here? Guys, I'm 20 years old, still a few month away from the big 2-1, so I can't legally carry a handgun. I know -- better judged by twelve than carried by six -- but the legal ramifications for me if I ever had to use a handgun (under-aged, no CCW) would be extreme.


    First thoughts on these guys is that they were drunk amateurs. I wasn't dressed like a target at all, and I'm wondering if maybe I was the only one to come along at that time (that street is sort of like a choke point for all the clubs and restaurants on the west side of the square)

    +1 on the flashlight. I have a Surefire E2D Executive Defender in my glove box, but I usually don't have it because I don't have a good "Concealed rig" to pack the light in that won't mess up the cut of my clothes and attract attention.

    The problem I see is, what if you HAD pulled your weapon and they saw that it was a blade and not a gun? Then what?



    Could you have out ran them? Are you good enough in a knife fight to fend off five men?

    Well, I'm no hero, and there was no way I was planning on taking on five guys with just a knife. My plan was to rip open any that came close to me and run like hell for the jazz club. When I was backing up and circling (keeping bottle boy out of my blind) I was moving towards the club as much as possible.

    The only other thing that I would have done is to call LE to look for the thugs. They could have very easily continued their hunt for a victim.
    I feel sort of bad, but in all honesty the thought of police and calling/reporting never even crossed my mind. My only concern was making in to the jazz club and back w/ my girlfriend unharmed. The only time the cops came into my thinking was when I saw a cruiser parked in the middle of the square, thought "Well, that's good," and then noticed there was no one in it.

    Thank you for the compliments to my SA, as I've been working hard on that recently...but if I had good SA wouldn't I have noticed these guys beforehand? Why did I just see them after they had already seen me?

    The other thing that is strange: the entire time I felt extremely...calm? No racing heart, no increased breath. My reflexes felt way faster (never knew I could get my knife that fast!) and I noticed I didn't have to do a lot of thinking -- it all felt automatic. I'm guessing this is a good thing?
    Last edited by Risque007; October 7th, 2008 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Grammar
    A man without a blackthorn stick is a man without an expedient. - Irish Proverb

    Why so SERIOUS?

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risque007 View Post
    Thank you for the compliments to my SA, as I've been working hard on that recently...but if I had good SA wouldn't I have noticed these guys beforehand? Why did I just see them after they had already seen me?
    We can't all have our head on a swivel 100% of the time and creep around every street corner we come to...you did fine, don't beat yourself up over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risque007 View Post
    The other thing that is strange: the entire time I felt extremely...calm? No racing heart, no increased breath. My reflexes felt way faster (never knew I could get my knife that fast!) and I noticed I didn't have to do a lot of thinking -- it all felt automatic. I'm guessing this is a good thing?
    That is awesome...now you know you can be calm and cool under deress and think with a clear head. We would all be fortunate to know this information about our own selves...but many won't have the chance to know until SHTF in their lives.

    Be thankful you learned a few lessons without paying any price. Well done young man.
    Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

  10. #25
    Member Array svinfinity45's Avatar
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    Your situation sounds like the beginning of the one I posted last week "defending others"...lucky it didn't go the same for you as it did for me! You did a great job with situational awareness though thats always a key player in your survival, getting surprised is never in your favor on the street.

  11. #26
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Re think it.

    You had five on one, and you were going to play stabby-stab?

    You been doing a lot of knife training?

    If they knew that all you had was a knife they would have killed you dead, or in intensive care for 2 weeks.

    A lot of states have what's called "affirmative defense".

    Yes it's illegal to carry w/o a license, can't get license under 21, probably illegal to carry in a bar....

    But if you actually use a gun in self defense, the fact that you HAD to negates the "crime".

    Check with lawyer. It varies from state to state.

  12. #27
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    Any time you walk away from a potentially hazardous scenario alive, unscathed, and exactly as intact as you went into it there are at least three possible answers as to how you did.

    They are: "You Done Good!" and/or "Lady Luck was in a good mood and she was smiling at you." and "You musta done something right."
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  13. #28
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    Seems you had no other choice. I think you did fine. Besides, you flay one coward and there is a good chance the others would back off enough for you to run. Bad guys don't like getting into knife fights any more than you or I, and generally look for easier prey. They might have backed off even if they saw a knife.
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

  14. #29
    New Member Array jdowder's Avatar
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    Overall it seems like a job well done. My only point of contention:

    Am I the only one who disagrees with the OP calling a member of the group a "retard"?

    Challenging the ego of a young male who is with a group of 4 others to prove himself to a single person who called him a retard seems like the wrong move. I see this as an unnecessary escalation.

  15. #30
    Member Array TRICKORMATE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdowder View Post
    Overall it seems like a job well done. My only point of contention:

    Am I the only one who disagrees with the OP calling a member of the group a "retard"?

    Challenging the ego of a young male who is with a group of 4 others to prove himself to a single person who called him a retard seems like the wrong move. I see this as an unnecessary escalation.
    Good point, I suppose we focused on the good job he did.
    Read my story.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ed-1994-a.html

    Pictures in page 5 & 6

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