1 vs. 5 downtown -- criticism/advice welcome
This is a discussion on 1 vs. 5 downtown -- criticism/advice welcome within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was downtown having dinner with some friends when my girlfriend called me, saying she was at a concert at a local jazz club (a ...
October 6th, 2008 08:19 PM
1 vs. 5 downtown -- criticism/advice welcome
I was downtown having dinner with some friends when my girlfriend called me, saying she was at a concert at a local jazz club (a friend of hers was performing) and she asked me to walk her back to her car since it was late (around 11:30 PM).
The jazz club that she was at is located downtown on the square in a parking lot right by the bus station.
I walked from the parking lot where I was, which means I went south for about a block, around the square, then turned right. The club was about two blocks up on my left, the bus station about one block up.
All I had on was my Emerson CQC7. I'm about 6'1", 200 lbs, wearing a black leather blazer with boot-cut levis and boots.
As I turn the corner and prepare to cross the street to my left, I see five white males, ages roughly 17-23 come walking out of a dark corner diagonally to me, all in a group. One of them is playing around with a pop bottle, kicking it along the street.
The leader, a guy about my height with a ratty little beard, spoke up first, saying "Hey man, could you spare a dollar or something?"
"Sorry," I replied, "don't carry cash." I looked him directly in the eye as I said it and kept on walking. I'm in the middle of the street now and the leader is still facing me, but I notice the other guys trending towards my left side, especially the one with the bottle.
He asked me again if I had any change or anything, and I replied in the negative. I also said calmly that if his little friend with the bottle (I said the retard with the bottle) tried sneaking any closer to me on my blind side there was going to be trouble. At that moment the bottle kid jumped up on his bottle and it blew, making a pretty loud noise. I jumped back, checking behind me to make sure I didn't have anyone back there, and reached for my knife. The leader automaticaly jumped back and yelled "No! He's got a gun!" and they all jumped back and ran off the other way. I made sure they left and contined on to the jazz club, taking the same way back since it was the best-lighted area to walk back in.
Okay, let's have it -- what did I do right and, most importantly, what did I do wrong?
A man without a blackthorn stick is a man without an expedient. - Irish Proverb
Why so SERIOUS?
October 6th, 2008 08:33 PM
You went on into the jazz club ... So, were you indeed feeling your life was being threatened, or not? Were you heading toward the light, people, phone?
You seem to have been cornered. Were they closing in? Was there any non-verbal body language showing manifest intent beyond what appears here? Eyes, demeanor, laughing/sniggering, clear "pressure" that wasn't described above, whatever? One might suggest their immediate blurting of "He's got a gun!" strongly suggests they knew full well what they were doing and the meaning of your last movement in response to their actions. But then, you didn't have that indicator until after they were fleeing.
Five-on-one isn't anything to sneeze at, and I certainly don't have all the info you had at that moment. Since no actual overt move was made against you, it could seem your actions were to jump for the use of lethal force a bit early. But 5-to-one cornered makes a huge difference, if all the other indicators are falling into place. Ultimately, you've got to make the call at the time given what you know/see/feel. The standard, generally, is that you had a reasonable fear for your life and limb.
To be clear, I've also had a multi-on-one against me. It isn't pretty, and it moves quickly. Two-on-one in a dark parking lot, I knew I was moments from severe damage, and drawing immediately caused them to break off the attack. It was obvious to me at the time what was going down.
Beyond those two basic questions, I don't have much else to suggest.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
October 6th, 2008 08:36 PM
I dont think you did anything wrong because you didnt display you weapon(not that this is illegal depending on a particular situation), you did what you had to prevent a threat, and no one was hurt. I'm really happy you sent those cowards running good job.
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October 6th, 2008 08:41 PM
I think you did great.
I'm going to use your "don't carry cash" answer from now on.
October 6th, 2008 08:45 PM
I agree...Well done...
Originally Posted by Fixxxer
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
October 6th, 2008 08:47 PM
Good idea - maybe add: no cash, just guns. jk
Originally Posted by Fixxxer
October 6th, 2008 08:58 PM
I agree with CCW...5 v 1 is likely a lose situation. It reminds me of the wolves...the hunt in packs...corner you...then go for the kill. Sounds like you defended yourself the best you could...but one has to ask oneself what I could of done better to preempt it happening in the first place.
October 6th, 2008 09:17 PM
Sounds to me like you did very well.
I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.
October 6th, 2008 09:53 PM
The problem I see is, what if you HAD pulled your weapon and they saw that it was a blade and not a gun? Then what?
Could you have out ran them? Are you good enough in a knife fight to fend off five men?
I would not have been in that situation without a gun. If I could not have had a gun with me, I would not have been there at all.
“I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.”
- Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004
October 6th, 2008 09:58 PM
Sounds like you did o.k. May I suggest you carry a bright flashlight as well? Blinding a few would have helped the odds , if they had decided to push on , rather than flee.
Also , if at all possible, gain some distance , pick your place of fighting if possible. I once was sucker attacked by 5-6 guys . I decided to run to the entrance of a nearby business to try and keep the #'s from surrounding me.
Depending on the situation this may or may not have worked for you. Finally , always carry lethal and non lethal tools when ever possible.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
October 6th, 2008 10:34 PM
You survived, so you did good. I like your answer of "don't carry cash" and your aggressive attitude about the punk with the bottle. You were letting them know you weren't a little sheep. Maybe your attitude led to their running when they thought you were carrying a gun.
Had they been armed or a little less cowardly, you might have been in trouble.
In your same situation, I would have been carrying a gun.
October 6th, 2008 10:36 PM
You did just fine...I agree with Rocky's suggestion about the light...evil hates light...kind of ruins the mood.
Stay armed...stay alert, stay bright...stay safe!
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Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
October 6th, 2008 10:48 PM
Good job! Great situational awareness. I'm glad it turned out out ok. The only other thing that I would have done is to call LE to look for the thugs. They could have very easily continued their hunt for a victim.
October 6th, 2008 11:57 PM
I think if they saw the knife and continued they would find out how sharp Emerson knives are.
Sounds like they didn't have weapons, they were going the strong arm route.
October 6th, 2008 11:59 PM
Good job. I agree with having a flashlight. I hate it when there are more bad guys.
Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen.
"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" (Latin)- "If you want peace, prepare for war".
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