Bangers in the gun shop - Page 4

Bangers in the gun shop

This is a discussion on Bangers in the gun shop within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by major99 Does anyone remember that this takes place in a gun shop?? It is not in the proverbial Wal-Mart. It seems to ...

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Thread: Bangers in the gun shop

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by major99 View Post
    Does anyone remember that this takes place in a gun shop?? It is not in the proverbial Wal-Mart. It seems to me to be a little paranoid in thi situation. There are certain places that you can feel more safe and comfortable, like a gun shop where most if not all of the clerks are openly carrying. Does any one understand the point that i am making? There is a very fine line between paranoid and aware, that i fully understand. It seems to be an extreme reaction to seek cover and even consider readying a weapon in this situation. I read nothing of a direct threat whether real or imagined, and I was under the impression that one should feel personally threatened. By reading the Original post, the OP seemed to be intimidated rather than threatened. I was not there obviously so I am only commenting on what I am reading.
    Not to get in to the "profiling" issue as I run everyone through the threat matrix. I just recently "profiled" a white anglo saxon male who was a street urchen, no offense to any wasp in the crowd.

    But back on point: It was just recently that a gunshop erupted into gunfire when a situation happened. This has happened more than once. Unfortuantely, there is something to steal and the thieves are very brazen.

    ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- An Orange County gun shop clerk stunned five men trying to steal guns right in front of him when he opened fire on them early Wednesday night. A surveillance camera captured the entire incident.

    In spite of the gunfire, one of the five thieves got away after the theft at Rieg's Gun Shop on Orange Blossom Trail (see map). He was last seen running south on OBT. Detectives at the sheriff's office said they have several leads and they believe they know his identity.

    Surveillance video from the gun shop and range shows the robbers putting their hands up in the air as the store clerk starts shooting at the suspects.

    According to deputies, five men entered the gun shop and started to look at the guns in the case. One person reached over and grabbed a .45-caliber gun and a second person grabbed another gun. When the employee saw what was happening, he pulled out his own gun and started firing shots at the five suspects.

    "The employee noticed something was happening and he felt threatened because one had a gun in his hand. The employee then shot at the one suspect that had the gun," said Cmdr. Rick Luckey of the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

    The bullets ended up out in the street, but no one was injured. Four of the suspects stayed inside the store, because they were too scared to leave. Deputies said the fifth robber took off with a stolen gun and investigators have been unable to find him.

    No charges were filed against the store clerk.
    rolyat63
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  2. #47
    Member Array usmcj's Avatar
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    if a group of men dressed like farmers or NASCAR fans walked into a store, my awareness level would go up?
    If a majority of crimes had been committed by men dressed like farmers, and/or NASCAR fans, then the answer is yes. If a majority of crimes are being committed by 10 yr-olds in groups of three, then a group of three 10 yr-olds near me will draw some serious attention from me. Really, this isn't a difficult concept to grasp. Me and my chosen profiles may be relevant only to me, and are not neccessarily politically correct.
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  3. #48
    Senior Member Array jeephipwr's Avatar
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    The President of the Motorcycle Club, The Mongols, is a medical technician. I think he works with CT scans or something like that. If he walked into the gun shop with his scrubs on, would most people just ignore him? But when he is not working, he has his leathers on, short t-shirt and tattoos showing. Then if he walked into to gun shop, would you then be wary?

    Same guy, different outfits. I think the Marine Corps has a saying something like "be nice to everyone, but have a plan to kill them if needed"

  4. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    ...I guess i need to stop dressing like a "banger"...
    Well, you do look good in a suit and tie...

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by major99 View Post
    Are you calling them "bangers" due to the way theey were dressed or attitude, or something else? Just out of curiosity, What would be your response or judgement if I ,with a few of my friends, BTW all of us bikers and CCers, walked into that same shop? Tattoos displayed with old worn leather jackets, long hair, and the whole Hollywood stereotype.
    Discriminate? Of course. Why do you think I don't walk through the projects with hundred dollar bills hanging out of my pocket? I have a right to do that? Does that make me a racist? No.
    If people want to look like "Gang Bangers" or "Hell's Angels", don't be surprised when you get profiled.

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    BOT. Evaluate the situation. 3 gents come in on a "desperation sale". Taking $200 on a Glock from a shop isn't uncommon, I wouldn't call it exactly usual either. Most folks are able to do far better FTF or in pawn, and most know it.

    Wouldn't have paricularly affected me either way, aside from instigating a prejudice against that shop, as that transaction really smells of "straw-man."

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    def Discriminate: to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately: to discriminate between things.

    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    well, it's nice to know where i stand with some of you guys. i guess i need to stop dressing like a "banger" so the guys who say profiling is okay will stop profiling me.

    jeez.
    Please understand. The mere fact you look a certain way does NOT put you in any standing. I don't know you. You're a stranger. If you were to walk into a shop acting as this $200-Glock guy did, I'd pay you a bit more attention based on the collection of indicators because I have nothing else on which to base an opinion. But the fact you look a certain way added onto other indicators in an area where such indicators frequently prove out in crime scenes, then it should be accepted that some folks are going to pay attention to when those indicators coalesce in a given situation.

    Prove to me over the next little while that you're decent and respecting and there for a good cause, then I begin to relax the radar settings. But keep one thing in mind: I don't know you. That is the primary indicator. It ain't earned 'til it's earned.

    so what i'm trying to say is, get over yourselves.
    Some understand that the ability to distinguish between characteristics, to discriminate between relevant and non-relevant elements (or, more-likely and less-likely characteristics, if you prefer) is what helps humans be a bit higher on the food chain. Reality is, if person #1 can be that high, it's entirely possible that person #2 is as well. For politically silly (uh, correct) reasons, if one is to completely dump the ability to distinguish characteristics, one moves toward the "condition white" camp.

    It's not personal. It doesn't get in the way of a wonderful, long-lasting relationship, should that occur. It merely acknowledges that strangers are just that, to be regarded with a bit more attention than normal until that elevated attention is otherwise proven to be unnecessary.

    As usmc suggested, this isn't a tough concept to grasp, "politically" stinging though it might seem.

    We all have an innate ability to distinguish, to discriminate (and I don't mean in the "political" sense). Be glad we do. It's a prime survival trait and it can help avoid getting you killed. It's that simple.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  8. #53
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    I was in my urban gun shop a few years ago and got to chatting with an employee about the numerous personal banger experiences I've had in the tough area I lived.

    He confirmed it's a problem area and said he lived there too and had no problems cuz THEY knew him and the big 45 he carries. He said they're some of his best customers.

    The shop is BTW one of the two involved with the lack of accountability of WA DC sniper's weapon.
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  9. #54
    TOF
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    If walking in the forest and you see a wolf or bear you should profile them as "Dangerous". If you happen to see a few deer or squirrels and profile then as significantly less dangerous that's ok too.

    It's no different in the big city.

    Appearance matters.
    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson

  10. #55
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    I guess for me, what it all boils down to that I DO profile. No excuses, no apologies and no doubt. And depending upon what my spider senses tell me dictates my alert status. If I hurt someone's feeling, and someone wants to consider me racist, I could care less. If I'm wrong, sorry. If I'm right and it means that my loved ones and I get home safe, then I'm happy. If someone doesn't like the fact that I profiled, tough.

    I had (notice the use of the past tense) friend who owned (notice the use of the past tense) a convenience store in a not so nice part of town. He was robbed at gunpoint and shot in the head. Left a wife and two young daughters. He was armed. He and I had the "stereotyping" conversation - that was before the PC term of profiling - several times. Because of his the population he sold to, he didn't like to stereotype. Guess what - it was the stereotypical denizen of the neighborhood who killed him. The mutt is serving a life sentence, but my friend is dead. I sure as hell wish he had "profiled" and it had been the mutt who was shot dead.

    So, if profiling bothers anyone, balance your feelings against the odds of survival and figure out which is more important.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOF View Post
    If walking in the forest and you see a wolf or bear you should profile them as "Dangerous". If you happen to see a few deer or squirrels and profile then as significantly less dangerous that's ok too.
    Lacking other info, that's as simple as it is.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOF View Post
    If walking in the forest and you see a wolf or bear you should profile them as "Dangerous". If you happen to see a few deer or squirrels and profile then as significantly less dangerous that's ok too.

    It's no different in the big city.

    Appearance matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Lacking other info, that's as simple as it is.
    deer attack - Google Search

    It is just that simple and the lesson is: even the "apparent" minimal threat can do you harm.
    rolyat63
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  13. #58
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    deer attack
    Deer have horns and sharp hooves. Rats can carry rabies. Spiders can kill. Some birds can cop an attitude and do damage before you can stop them. Life's a contact sport. The point was: it's a simple matter of probability. Nothing's for certain.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Deer have horns and sharp hooves. Rats can carry rabies. Spiders can kill. Some birds can cop an attitude and do damage before you can stop them. Life's a contact sport. The point was: it's a simple matter of probability. Nothing's for certain.
    Absolutely, we are in agreement. Everyone (and critters) get run through the threat matrix and only removed after some due diligence. No offense to bears and large cats but you will get my attention sooner than bambi but bambi will get my attention too. There is no non-threats some just significantly less.
    rolyat63
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    A gun in the hand is a million times more valuable than a cop on the phone!

    FL Concealed Weapon or Firearm Program

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    When it was time for a upgrade fore the wifes CCW gun, we tried to get a decent trade in on her CZ which was nearly NIB (she did not like it once she got it home N shot it so less than 50 rounds had been cycled) they only offered 50% of what the gun booked for even though we bought if from the same shop.
    So I can understand 200 bucks for a used possibly abused Glock, just hopefully the gun store ran the numbers though before the buy.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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