Business owner carry
This is a discussion on Business owner carry within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Claymores, facing outward, mounted on front of register cabinet. I actually like the glass and lock idea, along with sidearms and a shotty....
October 22nd, 2008 10:05 PM
Claymores, facing outward, mounted on front of register cabinet. I actually like the glass and lock idea, along with sidearms and a shotty.
"He went on two legs, wore clothes and was a human being, but nevertheless he was in reality a wolf of the Steppes. He had learned a good deal . . . and was a fairly clever fellow. What he had not learned, however, was this: to find contentment in himself and his own life. The cause of this apparently was that at the bottom of his heart he knew all the time (or thought he knew) that he was in reality not a man, but a wolf of the Steppes."
October 23rd, 2008 10:05 AM
As a small business owner you have to get to know your customers.
People are going to want suggestions on wine and other liquors and he will have to come out from behind the counter to do that.
I think a sidearm and a shotgun in the office may be the best he can do in this situation.
CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!
FOUR BOXES KEEP US FREE:  SOAP  BALLOT  JURY  AMMO!
October 24th, 2008 08:09 AM
If he's looking for a pistol to leave behind the counter, not to carry on his person, how about a stainless steel revolver in .38+p or .357? If it's left to gather dust for a couple of years without care, it will still fire 5 or 6 times for sure. No safety to remember to take off, simple operation. Point gun, say witty Dirty Harry slogan, pull trigger. As for the Judge, I'm not a fan for store defense. Too much potential for collateral damage with shot, not a lot of performance with buck or slugs, too heavy and big for .45LC. I like the pistol, but testing was less than impressive with serious ammo.
The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1
I wouldn't want to be hit by it, either. I also have a .410 Mossberg 500 as an HD gun. The performance from the pistol isn't the same, although a cloud of #6 shot to the face should still change the outcome of the fight. I think any shotgun except a semi auto would serve for behind the counter. We use a 12ga 500 at the gunshop. An exposed hammer double (or even single shot?) would work and be reliable and simple, a pump action can overcome a lot of dirt and dust bunnies to cycle if you pump it hard. A pump can be complicated if you store it cocked, slide locked, and safety on, or simple if it's unlocked hammer down on an empty chamber and safety off. The middle of a stickup is not the time to practice.
October 24th, 2008 08:59 AM
For the carry weapon a .40 or .45 Springfiel XD would be good. Same ergonomics as an 1911 and more capacity without the thumb safety to remember. For the behind the counter/office gun short barrelled high capacity pump in whatever gauge is controllable for him.
I like the bullet-proof counter idea that is very good, I also like the high counter idea. Your friend is right, they will need to come out and mingle so it cannot be an isolation chamber. Security cameras are good for the prosecuter and sherriff, but has anyone really seen a drop in crime after they became popular?
The next question is what firearms are the rest of the staff going to carry? In my estimation if your friend is the only one carrying that makes for a potential hostage situation and precludes having a backup in the event something goes down. This would require a level of employment qualification that would make getting an employee harder, but would be a good investment.
One last thing, once the steel counter front was installed, put some claymore mines at the baseboard level in a couple conspicuous places facing the counter. Even if they are just empty shells. They will make great conversation pieces for the people who recognize them, and imagine the talk in town.
"Man, he's got a steel counter so he can duck down and blow robbers away with those claymores!"
That, is detterrance.
But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
LTC(RET) Dave Grossman
Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook
October 28th, 2008 01:42 AM
As someone that has worked and does work in a business that is likely to get robbed I have a few thoughts for your friend to ponder. I will do my best to put them into a sensible order.
1) Is he going to be the only person working? Probably not
2) Is he the only one with access to the safe? Possible but I would suggest a new one that only HE knows the combination to.
3) Is he the only person that knows what the cameras "see"? NO
The store already has a very nice security and surveillance system so he's covered there
4) Add a couple of cameras that only he and the installer know the location and view of. Have them installed on a day only he is there and the store is closed.
5) Have a security system installed if there isn't one already. I recommend ADT.
A. Have panic buttons installed. Behind counter, in office, and store room. Never know which one you'll be closest too when you need it.
B. ADT offers a great feature where you set times that the alarm must be activated by or they call for a "safety" check.
6) A shotty behind the counter is not something I would consider unless it is only there when he is working. Too much liability.
7) I would encourage the staff to CC if legal.
8) The raised and steel lined counter is a GREAT idea.
9) Consider closing off the area behind the counter so only employees can get back there.
10) Be sure the bank he uses has a night drop box so now funds are left on premise over night.
11) Ask local PD if they will provide an "escort" to the bank at night. Most departments will do this at no charge.
I hope this has been helpful and not too much of a PITA.
Michigan Gun Owner
Michigan CPL Holder
Proud Member of The NRA
October 30th, 2008 09:51 PM
Really, the most important thing is to have the weapon on his person at all times. He needs a handgun he will really carry religiously.
I have a friend who owns a bar. He was something of a shooter before he opened the place, but he only had one handgun, a Beretta 92G (that I sold him years ago actually). Now, the 92G would be a great defensive handgun, but he is of really small stature (about 5'4" and 150 lbs) and he wouldn't carry it. He shoots the Beretta well and its his primary home defense handgun, but its not the right carry gun for him. He had been talking about getting a small revolver, so for a bar opening present I gave him a Taurus 85 Ultralite .38 Special.
He didn't have a CHP before he opened the bar (and inside the bar he doesn't need it), but he went ahead and got his CHP once the place opened. I am proud to say that he now carries that .38 religiously. Every day at the bar its in a belt holster under his shirt. Everywhere he goes he can legally carry outside the bar, that snubbie is with him. Hopefully he will never need it, but if he does, it will be there.
My choice wouldn't be a snubbie (as my only weapon) if it were me. However, the most important thing is carrying the gun all the time.
Most modern autos and revolvers of reasonable chambering will fit the bill, provided he is comfortable with the gun and knows how and when to use it. He might also consider wearing a concealed ballistic vest. If he does get into a shooting with a robber it could save his life (or if he is shot off hand before he can react).
Something along the size of a medium sized Glock (like the 19) would be my choice for on-person carry. Perhaps a Remington 870 or Mossberg 590 loaded with #4 buck in addition if there is an office where it can be secured in case a robbery goes down while he is out of sight and therefore has time to arm himself with a long gun.
"The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix
October 31st, 2008 12:15 AM
I like the idea of having a locking door and bullet proof glass around the counter. That way if someone does try something stupid, they will get locked in, won't be able to get to you, and will be stuck till the police get there. If you go this rout, I would suggest getting a stronger glass on the front door/windows so they can't be broken if the person tries to escape.
As far as weapon choice, I would go with a high cap pistol. Open carry might be an option to consider if its legal, since a BG would see that and likely choose an easier target to rob. For the pistol, the Smith & Wesson 5906 is a great pistol. I use to have one of these. It held 15 rounds in the clip and 1 in the chamber and it was a 9mm. But another thing you want to think of is what can you carry / shoot on a regular basis? My personal carry gun is a Taurus PT111pro 9mm...If I were to carry at work, this would be my gun of choice since it is what I usually carry. Its not a good idea to switch around guns every day. As far as a shotgun, the Remington 870 has always been my personal favorite. The only problem with a shotgun is the shortest the barrel can be is 18 inches. A long gun would be difficult to maneuver behind a counter unless there is a lot of space to move around.
I really think a nice pistol would be more than enough. As soon as its pulled, chances are the BG would turn around and run away....
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Smith & Wesson M&P9c
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