Middle of the Night Scenario...

Middle of the Night Scenario...

This is a discussion on Middle of the Night Scenario... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok, you are sitting here reading the forums at 11 at night and the door is tried and then forced open and a individual bursts ...

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Thread: Middle of the Night Scenario...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    Middle of the Night Scenario...

    Ok, you are sitting here reading the forums at 11 at night and the door is tried and then forced open and a individual bursts inside. You have, by virtue of the place you are living in, no place to go that can be considered a "Safe room" and are armed with your carry gun on your side or on the desk. You turn and draw in a well practiced movement, comming to the low ready with your finger along the frame of your weapon and challenge the intruder loudly while your better half arms herself, calls police and starts with "My address is... Intruder!" The intruder looks you over, and for some reason decides you won't defend yourself and advances. You are about the same build and have no idea about the tactical knowledge of this individual or if there are more lurking out of sight outside.

    1. The most asked question: what do you do?
    2. What is going to get you in hot water where you live legally?
    3. What are you going to say if this goes to trial and the man was shot but unarmed?

    Any other comments, please put them in!


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    You have to keep in mind that it is entirely likely that one of things will (probably) happen when you issue a verbal challenge, sees you, or maybe is just somehow alerted to your presence:

    1) BG flees
    2) BG freezes
    3) BG immediately starts firing or running towards your position.
    4) BG knew all along that you were there, and has been making a quiet move towards your location.
    5) (something else?)

    If he's armed, keep in mind that he didn't just bring that weapon with him for decoration.

    When someone forcibly enters your home, you have no idea whether he is armed or not; however, by the sheer violent act of forcible entry, anyone would be (rightly) in fear of their life. If someone is willing to invade a home, you can imagine that they are most likely prepared to do much more if necessary.

    Maybe one thing that might help is to put yourself in his shoes. Seriously. Try to become a home invader (in your mind) for maybe a little while. Maybe it sounds silly but its something I did a few weeks ago and I think it helps. I've also been the victim of a home invasion so its not a far off scenario for me. First, put yourself outside your house and ask, if my kid or sibling were stuck in that house with a few BGs in there, how would I try to get him out? I need to make a quiet entrance (or otherwise imagine some scenario where you'd have to try as hard as possible, something that puts more at stake than just your life). Or you are already in the house. How are you going to move around?

    Doing this I identified two areas I hadn't considered as possible entry points for a BG. Unfortunately, one of those entry points is a sort of big window in my bedroom. I already know of the other way which is how the BG came in last year. Haven't figured out what to do, although being as I do not own a firearm (yet) that puts me at a further disadvantage.

    My $.02!

  3. #3
    Member Array ryanjensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin132 View Post
    1. The most asked question: what do you do?
    2. What is going to get you in hot water where you live legally?
    3. What are you going to say if this goes to trial and the man was shot but unarmed?
    1. Shoot to stop the threat.

    2. Dragging him back into the house if he runs out and collapses. Beyond that, not much.

    3. "Castle Doctrine."

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    and advances
    what do you do?
    I aim my handgun at his center-mass & loudly order him to STOP (He has a very short time-frame in which to comply). Without immediate compliance (and following my next instruction to lay face-down on the floor with arms outstretched) he will be shot, repeatedly...until he is no longer a threat.

    What is going to get you in hot water where you live legally?
    Nothing. He forced entry into my home & was given warning. He died as a result of his actions & I am a "no bill" under my right to defend myself & my wife in our home when I believe there is a viable threat to our safety/lives under Castle Doctrine.

    What are you going to say if this goes to trial and the man was shot but unarmed?
    He doesn't have to be armed. If the facts represent a situation where my belief in the threat is real, then my response to the perceived threat is justified. There's no condition in the law that requires him to be brandishing a gun, knife, etc. for me to perceive his appearance & actions as a viable threat. If it's later discovered that he had a pocket full of marshmallows, then he was simply arrested (or shot)...with a pocket full of marshmallows.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  5. #5
    Member Array Firkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanjensen View Post
    1. Shoot to stop the threat.

    2. Dragging him back into the house if he runs out and collapses. Beyond that, not much.

    3. "Castle Doctrine."
    "Dragging him back into the house if he runs out and collapses," I think, would very likely be figured out by the police in an investigation and could get you into trouble. There is likely to be blood on the floor or walls left by the BG before he runs out. Or rather, let me restate that, There will CERTAINLY be a few blood drops on the floor or walls if he manages to run out and collapses.

  6. #6
    Member Array mlakrid's Avatar
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    When my family first moved to Florida, we found out we were living right down the street from the Hillsborough County Sheriff.

    He basically said the same thing, if the "perp" was found to be inmside your house, there would be no more questions...

    Case closed, granted that was back in the mid 80's but I would find it hard to believe that they would try and prosecute you even if they did make it back outside... they were a threat to you and your family... Castle Doctrine trumps all..

    Shoot, and dont shoot to scare...

    Mike A!

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    2. Dragging him back into the house if he runs out and collapses
    uhhh, BAD advice, BAD idea! With that act, you immediately go from a justified homeowner... to an indicted felon.

    will CERTAINLY be a few blood drops on the floor or walls if he manages to run out and collapses
    Right. It's his location when he was shot, not where he gets-to that matters. And don't continue to fire as he's leaving. Your right to defend yourself stops the moment he is no longer a threat. "Heat of the Moment" is not justification for continuing to score backside hits as he retreats.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    For this scenario I want to keep it to the unarmed intruder. He's wearing clothing that makes it impossible to be conceling a firearm, he's empty handed, etc. Also, for this scenario lets assume only one point of entry (my apartment honestly only has one unless you can fast rope onto the roof and try to come through the window - its a converted attic with external staircase. I'm in trouble if I have a fire! lol. Anyway, the big question I am thinking of is in my mind I have a pretty good idea of what I would do, wondering if it is right or not. I'm wonder how many people will shoot, and how many will resort to physically subduing him. Nevermind the arguments about how hard or easy that is for some people, assume its assessed in your mind as an even match.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    I don't care if he enters my home buck-naked, actually especially if he's buck-naked, he will immediately comply to my (armed) loud, clear instructions...or he will be shot. There's no such thing as a "fair fight" much past the Elementary School Playground. And there CERTAINLY isn't with anyone who has just forced their way into my home. I don't care if they're dressed in a ballet tutu or a hula grass-skirt (Hula holsters are VERY popular in Hawaii)!
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    I don't care if he enters my home buck-naked, actually especially if he's buck-naked, he will immediately comply to my (armed) loud, clear instructions...or he will be shot. There's no such thing as a "fair fight" much past the Elementary School Playground. And there CERTAINLY isn't with anyone who has just forced their way into my home. I don't care if they're dressed in a ballet tutu or a hula grass-skirt (Hula holsters are VERY popular in Hawaii)!
    +1 to that! Clint Eastwood had a great line...."when I see a naked man with a ---- and a butcher knife chasing a women down the alley, I figure he ain't collecting for the Red Cross"! The BG demonstrated his intent to do bodily harm or worse when he entered your home uninvited! At that point - it's AMF!
    Tim
    BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
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  11. #11
    Member Array sharpetop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanjensen View Post
    1. Shoot to stop the threat.

    2. Dragging him back into the house if he runs out and collapses. Beyond that, not much.

    3. "Castle Doctrine."
    Pretty much my thoughts! If somebody has the balls to break in my home[especially while occupied], they probably have the balls to do me harm.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    1) shoot until he is incapacitated
    2) check for more threats
    3) Make a pot of coffee before the police get there because it's going to be a long night with no sleep.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    it's AMF!
    Aren't those the folks who almost ruined; Harley Davidson, Hatteras Yachts, Brunswick, etc...?
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  14. #14
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    Dragging him back into the house if he runs out and collapses. Beyond that, not much.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    uhhh, BAD advice, BAD idea! With that act, you immediately go from a justified homeowner... to an indicted felon.
    Bear in mind that ryanjensen is NOT recommending this course of action. He was answering the OP's question #2.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin132 View Post
    1. The most asked question: what do you do?
    2. What is going to get you in hot water where you live legally?
    3. What are you going to say if this goes to trial and the man was shot but unarmed?

    Any other comments, please put them in!
    First of all, if looking down the barrel of "The Judge" doesn't have him/her turn around and leave then it's up to the intruder what happens next.

    Two, nothing. BG broke into my "castle doctrine" home against my wishes.

    Three, I was in fear of my life and the lives of my 5 loved ones. It was the BG's choice to enter my home uninvited. When told to leave, the individual did not comply and I was left with very few other choices.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
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