Hopeless situation

This is a discussion on Hopeless situation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Some of the recent posts here have gotten me thinking about the case of the hopeless situation, where you know that no matter what you ...

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Thread: Hopeless situation

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Hopeless situation

    Some of the recent posts here have gotten me thinking about the case of the hopeless situation, where you know that no matter what you do you are probably going to die. For instance, BGs lining up hostages in a robbery and starting to shoot one by one, or you've already been shot and are losing blood rapidly but are still conscious, etc.

    Most people would probably respond that they would like to 'go down shooting', and I was a bit skeptical of the motives of such discussion. That is, until I realized: people who are willing to kill innocent people like this will never stop. So, by 'going down fighting', if you manage to mortally wound some BGs in the process, you are almost certainly saving the life of some other innocent person who would be their next victim.

    Just some food for thought.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
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    My thoughts exactly.

    So what's with the name GWRedDragon? GW=Grand Wizard?
    Last edited by atctimmy; November 4th, 2008 at 09:32 AM.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I've never liked the work hopeless. I don't think any situation is absolutely hopeless.

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    There are things worth dying for. If by hopeless you mean very small chance of survival for yourself but much better chances for others, yes. If by hopeless you mean your are going to die but can go down swinging or just go down, yes.

    The situation will set the stage and the charecter of the actor will determine the course of events. Three out of four Medal of Honor winners in our fight agains terrorism literally dove on a grenade for their fellow soldiers. They could have jumped the same distance in the other direction and lived, but others would have died and they had the love of their fellow soldiers and the sense of honor that does not hold self-preservation as the highest ideal.

    The people on flight 93 didn't have a good situation, but they acted.

    I pray never to be put in this kind of circumstance, but I also pray that if it cannot be avoided that I will not be paralyzed into inaction, but do what is right.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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    Member Array athos76's Avatar
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    The way I see it is... If I know I'm going to die...and there is no possible way I will live...I'm doing EVERYTHING in my power to make sure someone (ie. BG) goes with me...
    Flight 93 is a good example of what can happen when a few people take the lead. I believe if those select few that (according to the story and movie) took control to try to take control were not there... it might have been worse for this country...

    Oh, and if I do get killed in a situation and don't have the opportunity to take a BG with me... someone run to a mirror and say my name 3 times... I'll do the rest (and you can have the movie rights)
    "carrying a gun is a lot lighter than carrying a cop in your pocket" -MrTwice99

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    I remember a Star Trek (not sure if it was the movie or TV show) but someone was talking to Capt. Kirk. He was applauding the captain for taking a hopeless situation, turning the tables and coming out the victor. Not an easy feat, but doable.

    I would always look for an opening. I just don't think I could be a sheep and do nothing. However, in watching the movie about the 9/11 hijackings, even when the passengers knew they were going to be crashed into a building, most people refused to take action. I don't think I could do it alone, although I have all my life. I think it was that 2% who would do something pro-active. You do the dirty work and don't get thanked. Just another unsung hero I guess.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

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    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    My thoughts exactly.

    So what's with the name GWRedDragon? GD=Grand Wizard?
    Hah, no. It is something I came up when I was a teenager about 15 years ago and me and my friends used to play D&D. Yeah, I'm a nerd

    I have never seen a need to change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigiceman
    The situation will set the stage and the charecter of the actor will determine the course of events. Three out of four Medal of Honor winners in our fight agains terrorism literally dove on a grenade for their fellow soldiers. They could have jumped the same distance in the other direction and lived, but others would have died and they had the love of their fellow soldiers and the sense of honor that does not hold self-preservation as the highest ideal.
    That makes sense. I know, however, that it is one thing to talk about sacrificing one's self like this on a forum in the comfort of my home, while it is quite another thing to actually do it. I only hope that if it comes to this I am as brave and honorable as these folks.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
    ---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately. ---

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWRedDragon View Post
    That makes sense. I know, however, that it is one thing to talk about sacrificing one's self like this on a forum in the comfort of my home, while it is quite another thing to actually do it. I only hope that if it comes to this I am as brave and honorable as these folks.
    Until the stage is set, you are right, it is all just talk. I think our discussions here do help us to prepare, to think a little about our charecter and what direction we might take in a difficult situation. The Marine Corps makes a point of telling new recruits the stories of marines that have gone before them and the way they have served their fellow soldiers, the Corps and their country with honor. This inspiration serves to give them a similar mental exercise in advance of a real situation where they can see how it can turn out for the best even if the individual was not a survivor.

    A person who becomes thought of as an hero is just an ordinary person in a set of extrodinary circumstances that does something.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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    "you've already been shot and are losing blood rapidly but are still conscious, etc.

    In that scenario...go down in a blaze of glory. One big advantage that you still retain is that you can only die once.

    I honestly would never brainwash myself into believing that any situation is 100% hopeless.

    AKA - already wounded - bleeding out - How about going for broke and trying to end the deadly threat ASAP and then quickly calling for Emergency medical attention while attempting to stabilize your blood loss?

    That might work.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Shoot the BGs then use your fingers to start plugging holes.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Shoot the BGs then use your fingers to start plugging holes.
    No.
    Its hard to plug holes with your fingers and keep shooting.
    Its better to take the empty shell casings and stick them in the holes. Hopefully,they are still hot enough to stem the blood flow.

    You've got to use every advantage that you can.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    No.
    Its hard to plug holes with your fingers and keep shooting.
    Its better to take the empty shell casings and stick them in the holes. Hopefully,they are still hot enough to stem the blood flow.

    You've got to use every advantage that you can.
    My baby does not just "drop" my brass, she gets the heck rid of them. I am not crawling the 15+ feet looking for my spent brass. I can shoot one handed and plug the major holes, then when the threat is eliminated, use my other hand.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    "you've already been shot and are losing blood rapidly but are still conscious, etc.

    In that scenario...go down in a blaze of glory. One big advantage that you still retain is that you can only die once.

    I honestly would never brainwash myself into believing that any situation is 100% hopeless.

    AKA - already wounded - bleeding out - How about going for broke and trying to end the deadly threat ASAP and then quickly calling for Emergency medical attention while attempting to stabilize your blood loss?

    That might work.
    Ditto...never give up...ever.

    Rick

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    Senior Member Array Barbary's Avatar
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    I have another option to sticking shell casings in your wounds. Tampax have been used for insertion into gsws. Just a thought to keep some on hand and hopefully never have to use them.

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    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWRedDragon View Post
    That makes sense. I know, however, that it is one thing to talk about sacrificing one's self like this on a forum in the comfort of my home, while it is quite another thing to actually do it. I only hope that if it comes to this I am as brave and honorable as these folks.
    I agree that we won't know what we would do until we are confronted with the situation. But I am a great believer in the power of the mind.

    In his tapes, "The Psychology of Winning", Dr. Denis Waitley, referring to athletes, stated that no one ever won an event without first winning it in his mind.

    This is why I play the "what if" game a lot.

    I set up mental scenareos and try to determine how I would want to react.

    Before anyone gets the Walter Mitty impression of me, let me say that after thinking about these scenareos (from home invasions to active mall shooters), in the vast majority of my (hopefully well reasoned) reactions the result is that I get my family to safety and watch and wait while planning to be a good witness.

    It is only in a rare, the stuff has REALLY hit the fan scenereos do I actually feel that using the gun is the best course of action.

    If I was shot and things were looking bleak and bad guy was still shooting people, I would hope that I have the stones to spend my last breath attempting to take him out.

    Hopefully, I will never have to find out the answer to that question.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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