Almost popped a cap in someone today...

This is a discussion on Almost popped a cap in someone today... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok, not really. But it was close enough for me. (I hope this is in the right forum area) For those who don't know, I ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Almost popped a cap in someone today...

  1. #1
    Member Array Q-ball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    208

    Exclamation Almost popped a cap in someone today...

    Ok, not really. But it was close enough for me. (I hope this is in the right forum area)

    For those who don't know, I started working again (part-time) for an armored transport company. IE-Armored Car, lots of money, and I look like a steak dinner to a lot of BG's.

    Today, outside a bank, I was waiting for my messenger/jumper who was in the branch. Messenger/jumper is slang for the guy who gets in and out of the truck. Today, I was the driver.

    While he's inside he radios me and tells me to be on the lookout for a guy in bib overalls, green shirt and with a large Army style duffle bag on his shoulder. Apparently the skel was giving the tellers in the bank the heebeegeebees and giving my jumper the evil eye (and then some). My jumper tells me to be ready, he is coming out soon and doesn't want to be surprised by duffle boy.

    Duffle boy, at this point, is outside on the sidewalk and looking at a sign on the window. His back is towards the truck. He looks really shady, so I unholster my weapon and position myself at the gunport closest to him (which is in front of the bank on my passenger side). Later, I realize that he really wasn't reading the sign on the window. He was watching me in the reflection of the glass because......

    He immediately turns around and starts staring at me. He knew I pulled my weapon and scooted closer. He will stand and stare for the next 5-7 minutes. I am not exaggerating, that is a long time. There is something wrong with this guy. He doesn't move during that time, just stares at me while I stare back.

    I radio my jumper and give him a sit-rep. He tells me to get the city police on the phone and get one dispatched to our location. At this point the bank tellers are REALLY freaked out, according to my jumper.

    I call 911, in full view of duffle boy (no reaction) and explain to her who I am, where I'm at, what I do (armored car), and what is happening. So what does the operator do?

    In a condescending voice she says "So, he's staring at you". She made it a statement. She made it sound like Get over it, he's just staring.

    I explain to her that my guy doesn't feel safe going out there and would like police presence. What does she do? Well, she doesn't dispatch an officer. She gets my phone number and tells me an officer will call me back. Unbelieveable!

    I inform my jumper of what's going on and duffle boy starts walking west. He makes it about 1/2 a block, turns and starts staring again. I tell my jumper to stay inside.

    BTW, my jumper is coming out with a lot of coin and currency. In other words, he has a lot of stuff to load up on the truck. Not like a usual stop with one or two items in his bag and he can just jump in.

    Well, duffle boy makes it down the block and is approx. 1 1/2 blocks away. Still no call from the po-po at this point.

    My jumper decides to chance it and exits the bank, loads up and we leave the area.

    Halfway across town to our next stop we get a call from a police officer. I informed him what happened.

    I also informed him that his dispatcher better take me (and the rest our our company) more seriously next time we call for back-up or assistance. In fact, I think my words to the officer were
    "Do I have to get in a gunfight to get your dispatcher's attention?"

    The officer appologized and stated that they (police) have issues with their dispatch, or words to that effect. He conveyed to me, not directly, that dispatch was lack luster in performance and/or judgement.

    BTW, the officer was VERY professional and took my concerns seriously. He was not at all like the dispatcher.

    So there's my long story with no shoot out. Thought some of you might find it interesting. We'll see what happens tommorow.

    OMT-Oregon is just getting worse and worse for this stuff. We may not be as bad as Cali, but we're not in Kansas anymore.
    Seek safety at the heart of danger.

    Live Easy, Die Hard

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    2,193
    Glad to hear it worked out. I feel for ya on the dispatcher thing...I've had a few "less than satisfactory" conversations with emergency dispatchers who were, to put it nicely, a few french-fries short of a happy-meal.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  4. #3
    Member Array oregonshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Medford, OR.
    Posts
    270
    SORC has a huge turn over rate, now you know why. :)
    Glad it worked out.

    At what point are you authorized to use dealy force when inside the truck?

    Do they have to put a round into the glass before you can fire through the portals?

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Away - Health Problems
    Posts
    17,353
    Nice response by the dispatcher i wonder if you could file a complaint with the Chief

  6. #5
    Member Array oregonshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Medford, OR.
    Posts
    270
    They are 3rd party dispatch. He could file a complaint with the SORC sup though.

  7. #6
    Lead Moderator
    Array rstickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Laurel, MD
    Posts
    21,627
    A lot of 911 organizations are less than great. There have been news stories in my area about people being put on hold, wrong directions passed and other horror stories.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,757
    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle
    A lot of 911 organizations are less than great. There have been news stories in my area about people being put on hold, wrong directions passed and other horror stories.
    Kind of like: Hello, this is SUICIDE PREVENTION...can you please HOLD.....click.....Hello? Hello?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,757

    Thumbs up Ya Done Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Q-ball
    "Do I have to get in a gunfight to get your dispatcher's attention?"

    The officer appologized and stated that they (police) have issues with their dispatch, or words to that effect. He conveyed to me, not directly, that dispatch was lack luster in performance and/or judgement.

    OMT-Oregon is just getting worse and worse for this stuff. We may not be as bad as Cali, but we're not in Kansas anymore.
    Sounds like a hairy situation, alright. Aren't your truck windows heavily tinted? That would make more sense, you don't like to let potential BG's know your relative locations inside the vehicle, I would think. You might suggest this to the company for a truck upgrade.

    All in all, I think you did exactly the right thing. I'm surprised though, that the truck isn't equipped with a shotgun or rifle for shooting thru the ports. Most of the companies like yours here in south Florida have shotguns available. The jumpers sometimes unholster the sidearm and carry it in one hand while doing some of the pickups. The chopper pickup is becoming more and more common, too.

    Where in Oregon are you? I have often thought of moving to the area of Bend or maybe Rogue River. But I worry about the Cali granola crunchers and the lax dope laws....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  10. #9
    VIP Member
    Array srfl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    6,870
    Hopefully that dispatcher will now only take calls from the Wendy's drive thru and that the bank (or someone) took the guy's photo or video footage for later ID.

    I'm glad to hear there were no shots exchanged.
    USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

  11. #10
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,482
    Seems the guy was akin to being a nutjob - but that sure would freak out anyone in your position. That is one LONG time to be stared at!!!

    As for despatch - well - perhaps a size 12 to the butt could help instill a more serious attitude!! Seems very desultory behavior.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #11
    1943 - 2009
    Array Captain Crunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    10,371
    Q-ball,

    Good job handling a dicey situation.

    Surely your conversation with 911 is on tape. A formal written complaint to the dispatcher's supervisor is in order here. She was wayout of line.

    Stay safe.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  13. #12
    Member Array RobL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    99
    Dial 911 & DIE The tinted windows are a great idea.
    So is a shotgun. Having an emergancy response system that works would be great too. I wonder what the response would have been If this guy was acting that way with that bag outside a school yard?
    "What, he's just staring at those little girls?"
    Personally, I wouldn't trust this gal at Wendy's.

    Rob
    simplyrugged.com

    Get Trained Go Armed.

    “Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival.”
    Winston Churchill

  14. #13
    Member Array Q-ball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    208
    Quote Originally Posted by oregonshooter
    At what point are you authorized to use deadly force when inside the truck?

    Do they have to put a round into the glass before you can fire through the portals?
    I can use deadly force when I feel my life or a third party's life is in danger. They don't have to put a round in the truck, I don't have to wait for them to shoot first.
    Seek safety at the heart of danger.

    Live Easy, Die Hard

  15. #14
    Member Array Q-ball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    208
    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Sounds like a hairy situation, alright. Aren't your truck windows heavily tinted? That would make more sense, you don't like to let potential BG's know your relative locations inside the vehicle, I would think. You might suggest this to the company for a truck upgrade.
    LOL......................oh, you're serious. Our company has a hard enough time keeping our trucks running right. Your suggestion is a good one, but I already know that by the time my request for tinted windows comes through I'll be long gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    All in all, I think you did exactly the right thing. I'm surprised though, that the truck isn't equipped with a shotgun or rifle for shooting thru the ports. Most of the companies like yours here in south Florida have shotguns available. The jumpers sometimes unholster the sidearm and carry it in one hand while doing some of the pickups. The chopper pickup is becoming more and more common, too.
    I probably should have grabbed the Remington 870, but I reacted too fast and thought my jumper was coming out sooner. My Glock is quicker that the gauge. Next time will be different if I have the time...
    Also, we can't pull our weapon out of the holster (when outside the truck) unless deadly force is necessary. IE-Brandishing. The guards who work for our corperation in Cali can unholster and walk around with their weapon in hand. In Oregon, no.
    BTW, What's a chopper pickup? Do you mean helicopter? We have way too much coin for a chopper to haul.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Where in Oregon are you? I have often thought of moving to the area of Bend or maybe Rogue River. But I worry about the Cali granola crunchers and the lax dope laws....
    PM on the way.
    Seek safety at the heart of danger.

    Live Easy, Die Hard

  16. #15
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,818
    Here's my take on it...

    It appears that you did your job well. You were vigilant and you were paying attention to any potential threats. Thats a good thing.

    You called the dispatcher and told her that a "suspicious"person was watching you.

    The dispatcher may have needed more information. Was he a threat?
    Was he endangering you in any way? How? Did he make any threatening gestures? Did you see a weapon of any sort?

    Understand that if you call a dispatcher and notify her that someone is staring at you, that the sense of urgency is simply not there. No laws have been broken. He was not asked to leave by the property owners. It sounds like he was a homeless guy that probably had all of his belongings in a duffel bag. Perhaps he was on a trip, and had to walk. He may have been on drugs, thus his fasicnation with watching.
    It may be that he had never seen an amoured car.

    Pulling your peice out seems a little premature to me. While I understand that you dont need to get shot at before presenting your piece, you were not under assault, and it wasnt even implied.

    Now...lets put the shoe on the other foot.

    Suppose that "duffel boy" saw you clear leather and he called the cops. Cop shows up and wants to know why you felt it that it was prudent to have your gun in your hand. You tell him that the guy was staring at you...

    Its not against the law to "stare" at someone.
    Its not even against the law to be crazy or stupid.
    It is against the law to brandish a weapon.

    Lets say the some young punk of a cop decided that the only law that was broken was the one that you broke by clearing leather. Even if you did in while still in the truck and duffle boy saw it, he could say that he felt threatened by it. So you get a ticket and you go before the judge. Are you going to be able to articulate that your life was in danger ?

    Now lets say that the company that you work for took the fact that you got a ticket as proof of you breaking the law. (with many companys you are guilty until proven innocent)and they fire you. Two yeas later the trial to reinstate your job from the lawsuit that you filed takes place. Are you going to be able to articlute to a jury that your actions weer justified ?

    I'm not saying that you were wrong or right in your performance. Im just adding more to the thought process here...and trust me on this, into todays legal environment, what seems to be right at the time or what appears to be common sense means little to a jury,especially if a slick talking lawyer with the gift of gab is working for the other side.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Talk Show Host gets Popped By Scope
    By Platinum13 in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: January 9th, 2010, 09:19 AM
  2. My Life Changed Today. Got my MO CWP today
    By goab in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: November 6th, 2009, 12:29 PM
  3. Wife popped the question-Continued
    By Blue in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: November 2nd, 2009, 11:04 PM
  4. Wife popped the question.
    By Blue in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: February 21st, 2009, 03:53 PM
  5. Got my first 10/22 today!
    By Jaltered in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: September 29th, 2006, 01:11 PM