Kwik-E-Mart Situation

Kwik-E-Mart Situation

This is a discussion on Kwik-E-Mart Situation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've often thought of this situation and I'm wondering what others thoughts are on it. You're in a convienant store type setting, not too many ...

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Thread: Kwik-E-Mart Situation

  1. #1
    Member Array 500Mag's Avatar
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    Kwik-E-Mart Situation

    I've often thought of this situation and I'm wondering what others thoughts are on it. You're in a convienant store type setting, not too many people around if any. Someone comes in to stick up the place, pulls a gun on the cashier demanding money. You are have a clear view of what is going on and know the BG is alone, and he is unaware of you. What do you do?

    The clerk is in clear danger of his life, if possible do you shoot the BG (preferably in the head, given you have the opportunity) or do you do nothing? The way I see it, it's justifiable b/c an innocent life is in clear danger. Also if I put myself in the situation of the clerk then I'd sure be praying for an act of God to come and eliminate the BG.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    unless and untill the BG starts shooting i make a good witness , I am no longer active LE so intervention is for idiots imho , i could care less about the stores money , the BG isnt directly threatoning ME , and i dont have a christal ball to know he is going to harm anyone at this point . If he caps a round (or it appears to me he is actualy going to harm someone ) all bets are off most stop and rob jobs are just that they want a fix not to hurt anyone .

  3. #3
    Member Array 500Mag's Avatar
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    I will agree that most stop and rob jobs are just that, but what if it isn't, how would you feel knowing you could have prevented it.

    Another little wrinkle, assume the clerk is a good friend or significant other and not just a random person.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I will feel that i and my CCW have done exacly what i got it for ( to protect me and mine ) and as for the clerk being one of " mine " no chance we wont work stop and robs lol they may well be a friend tho as its a small town. irreguardless if the true hostilitys ensue the bg will be DRT tho after the fact , as stated i am no longer a cop , and my white charger ran off years ago. I did not create the situation the bg did so the outcome lies directly on him also.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array jarhead79's Avatar
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    It is likely that the BG won't focus only on the cashier. He'll be nervous, paranoid, jumpy, etc., etc., etc. I say slowly get your hand on your gun and get it clear of the holster. Wait for the opportune moment, and draw on him. Tell him some crazy cop phrase like, "DROP IT!" At this moment, he'll either crap his pants and drop the gun and likely run like a fox, or he'll turn the gun toward you. At this point, you let him learn how Corbon DPX feels expanding in flesh at over 12" of penetration.
    www.ubgholsters.com short wait times. Use 'defensivecarry' as a coupon code for a discount to your order.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    then you can look foreward to a nice relaxing evening down visiting with the boys @ homocide . After which you and the wife can go hock her wedding rings , sell the house , pawn the firstborn , ect.. to pay for the attorneys for the upcoming lawsuits for " Needlessly and callously gunning down this paragon of society who was a loving son, and beloved father of ohh say 36 or so " LOL anyway that is my take on it

  7. #7
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    and know the BG is alone
    That tho is one of those areas where I really don't think we can be 100% sure - tho yes in many cases probably so. Not something tho to take for granted just on a superficial and probably rapid assessment.

    This like so many situations would for me come into the ''play it as you see it'' category - as there is no hard and fast rule of thumb. Many times the BG will be using the gun for intimidation but - we have seen way too many cases too where the clerk gets shot, whether doing as told or not.

    Redneck has valid points regarding one's own intervention quotient - which ideally should be zero but - this is still something each and every one of us would have to decide if on the spot - more a matter of conscience perhaps that simple logistics and legal consequences.

    I am not one to ever want to play the hero but nonetheless, am equally averse to watching someone take a hit when it might have been prevented.

    Aspects of this can be lose-lose, so easily.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Lead Moderator
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    How about hunker down, pull my weapon AND cell phone. Dial 911 and prepare to defend myself.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    Senior Member Array SOLOLUCKY's Avatar
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    Its a sad day when legal issues dictate our actions of life and limb, but these a troubled times. i read it earlier in another post about this legal stuff crossing yer mind when/if it ever comes time to draw and possibly it 'delaying action'. it should cross yer mind, i guess, because these ramifications will last 1000 times longer that the original incident but...
    i guess this is one of those situations where ya play it as it unfolds i reckon.
    would hate to see an innocent hurt or dead but too i'd would hate to live under a highway overpass also due to the repurcussions.
    R1

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    Lets keep it that way.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array jarhead79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    then you can look foreward to a nice relaxing evening down visiting with the boys @ homocide . After which you and the wife can go hock her wedding rings , sell the house , pawn the firstborn , ect.. to pay for the attorneys for the upcoming lawsuits for " Needlessly and callously gunning down this paragon of society who was a loving son, and beloved father of ohh say 36 or so " LOL anyway that is my take on it
    A little legal mumbo jumbo, but very good stuff if ever needed. I Love Idaho

    TITLE 19
    CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
    CHAPTER 2
    PREVENTION OF PUBLIC OFFENSES
    19-202A. LEGAL JEOPARDY IN CASES OF SELF-DEFENSE AND DEFENSE OF OTHER
    THREATENED PARTIES. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy
    of any kind whatsoever for protecting himself or his family by reasonable
    means necessary, or when coming to the aid of another whom he reasonably
    believes to be in imminent danger of or the victim of aggravated assault,
    robbery, rape, murder or other heinous crime.

    TITLE 18
    CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
    CHAPTER 40
    HOMICIDE
    18-4009. JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE BY ANY PERSON. Homicide is also justifiable
    when committed by any person in either of the following cases:
    1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
    felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
    2. When committed in defense of habitation, property or person, against
    one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a
    felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent,
    riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the
    purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,
    3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or
    husband, parent, child, master, mistress or servant of such person, when there
    is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some
    great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished;
    but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was
    the assailant or engaged in mortal combat, must really and in good faith have
    endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed;
    or,
    4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to
    apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any
    riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.
    www.ubgholsters.com short wait times. Use 'defensivecarry' as a coupon code for a discount to your order.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    Jarhead, I like that legislation. Every State should have same.
    For God, Family and Country!

  12. #12
    Member Array RobL's Avatar
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    You KNOW he is alone? Have you considered seeded back up-someone that is in the store appearently harmless, but in reality the back up for the trigger? Or a tail gunner just outside?
    Do a search for Lance Thomas and read about His experiances with these types of thieves.
    It really dedends on the situation and sad to say the jurisdiction, and what you are willing to put up with in the present and in the future.
    If it was a quick grab and go, I'd probably let them go. If the crook started pistol whipping the clerk, I'd be involved.
    What you do is up to you. Don't tunnel vision on just the one guy with the gun.
    I ceertainly hope you get some good training, these folks here can set you on the right path for your area. You question shows that you are not just gonna blindly look for an "opportunity to use you piece."
    Rob
    simplyrugged.com

    Get Trained Go Armed.

    “Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival.”
    Winston Churchill

  13. #13
    Member Array CraigJS's Avatar
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    If you "hunker down" and use your cell phone to call the Cops, you'd best give a very detailed description of your self, hair color, cloths, age, ethnics (if important for ID), to keep from being seen as the BG when LEO arrive!!
    Remember your also armed, and when the "good" guys get there, they won't know if (for certain) your also a "good" guy, or a BG till they get ALL the facts!! Move slowly, follow their orders, and LEO's love to see both your hands..

  14. #14
    New Member Array Scruit's Avatar
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    If I could draw without being seen and there is NOBODY ELSE gonna see me draw (don't need to confused as an accomplice, or taken by BY a silent accomplice) but I would need the following before I would shoot:

    - Good cover
    - BG has visible gun that is pointed at someone, or knife + no counter between the BG and clerk
    - I would have to clearly hear the demand/threat made by the bad guy, and know 100% that is was a robbery. Would hate to have missed where the 'BG' said "Hey, Bob, just got me a new gun, check it out!"
    - I would have to be able to end the situation immediately, with one shot (ie headshot)

    Every instinct in me says to NOT provoke a shootout in a crowded area, and unless you have a 12ga with you a single shot is unlikely to end it. He's going to turn, maybe run, maybe shoot back, maybe not even realise he's been shot until after he empties his own mag.

    You have to weigh the danger to the clerk against the danger to the other people in the store (including yourself). Think of it this way - with the clerk being robbed and you hidden, there is one life in danger (clerk). When you start shooting, there are two lives in danger (Clerk and you. I'm not going to count the BG because he chose the danger for himself) Consider that when the BG is distracted the clerk may produce his own gun. Is he going to check his downrange as he starts plugging the BG? Is he going to realise that you are shooting at the BG, or think you are shooting at him? If you try to take up a position to the BG's 3 or 9 to prevent potential crossfire with the clerk, then is the clerk going to think you are a BG too?

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