Bluff or not? - Page 2

Bluff or not?

This is a discussion on Bluff or not? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yeah, I guess so. My usual 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night is probably too much anyway. . . mm...

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Thread: Bluff or not?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Yeah, I guess so. My usual 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night is probably too much anyway. . .

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array HollowpointHank's Avatar
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    I know some won't like this, but what about giving him the money? Once he has your property then pull your gun. Freeze or I'll blow your head off. Dial 911 and get police presence and explain you've just been robbed.

  3. #18
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    A possibility Hank - certainly.

    I think tho the moment a BG mentions ''gun'' we are perhaps likely to think more about self-preservation - plus knowing that there are cases where once a robbery is achieved - ''Bang" - victim is no longer of use and is shot!

    I am a cynic - and overtly suspicious by nature!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  4. #19
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    And I thought a CHL would simplify life! WRONG! I think P95Carry actually lies around in the middle of the night fighting insomnia, and wants to inflict it on us too! LOL!

    Actually, these deals really help sensitize folks like me - thanks to all for thoughtful comments. Now, I'll just go take a nap....without sleep.


  5. #20
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    Actually R&G (and this might well be old age fatigue) I sleep ridiculously well most times! And too long!

    I sure do not wish to reduce other's ability to sleep tho - but I do like to stimulate thinking!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  6. #21
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    P95Carry: Just teasing ya - I sleep well too - not looking forward to problems with that which the elderly sometimes experience.

    You do cause A LOT of quality thinking! LOL!

  7. #22
    Member Array Kompact9's Avatar
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    I think if there wasn't a gun in sight, I would immediately move offline (this will be unexpected) to the BGs right. The whole intent here is if the BG's gun is in a coat pocket or out of sight, it would be more difficult for the BG to follow you to his right and give you a fraction of time to better react or gain control of the situation.

    But the really important thing is to move (take a step or two, dive and roll, whatever you practice) out of the obvious line of fire and draw your gun. After that, it all depends on what develops...at least with your gun drawn, you're on more equal footing. Food for thought...
    noli nothis permittere te terere...

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Actually you should never just hand over what the BG wants, tactically you should always throw the keys, wallet, and change, whatever to your left and slightly behind or to the side of the BG, this puts them at a disadvantage. They now have to divert their attention bend over fumble with, and likely use the so called gun hand to pick up your stuff. Now is the time to act and announce “so do I freeze”
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  9. #24
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    Good point K9 - we did not cover movement aspect and indeed - in any situation we should be thinking of movement even as we decide on next stage decision, time possibly being of the essence so speed important - possibly too, that even catching BG off guard somewhat.

    Of course - relatively easy to think along these lines from comfort of our office chair with time on our side
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  10. #25
    Member Array blacksan's Avatar
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    In VA if you can articulate you where in fear of immanent serious bodily injury, or death you covered the bases for using deadly force in a broad sense. There is no need for a weapon to be present just the ability to place the jury in your shoes per say and have them come to the same conclusion you did in using deadly force. The mere threat of a weapon would leave a reasonable person to believe that the perp is more then willing to hurt you. The other angle that most people do not consider is your own weapon in the possession of the perp and being in a criminal manner at some point. I would argue that losing control of my weapon in itself is reason enough to use whatever force necessary to stop the act.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    blacksan,

    I understand what you are saying about only the perception of the threat and/or weapon being present is enough, morally and legally (at least in my area.) But my actions would probably have to include some form of validating the threat. By that, I mean any visual or verbal clues from the BG that would support or deny the threat of violence.

    Simply put, I do not want to be put into the position of taking someone down and finding out later that I over-reacted.

    But that would certainly be preferable to hesitating too long and becoming another crime statistic.

    Maybe I'm the odd-man-out here, but in those rare occasions in the past, where I became engaged in a physical confrontation, the anger I felt didn't seem to come from the fact that I had been assaulted, but more along the lines of, "How DARE you put me in the postition of having to do what I now must?!?"

    I am not a "fighter" in the classic sense. As a boy, I never "fought for fun." I was the little creep that would always tell the bully, "All fighting will prove is, who is the better fighter. It won't settle right and wrong, unless the arguement is about who is the better fighter."

    Believe it or not, I actually avoided fights in school quite sucessfully.

    When I couldn't reason my way out, I then exploded with such violence that frightened both my "enemies" and my friends. In my head, that was what I had to do, in order to stop what was happening.

    I never had to fight the same person twice.

    To this day, I will not fight unless there is simply no way to avoid it. Should that be the case, then I become a rather unpleasant individual, one that I do not like, at all.

    Yes, the perception of a threat IS enough. Could I live with myself if that threat turned out to be an empty one? Yes, but not happily.

    I would seek comfort though, in the knowledge that the individual brought his fate upon himself.

    After a while, I'd probably be able to accept that truth.

    Just for the record, I'm not phycho. (At least, not according to my shrink! ) I've only had three or four "fights" in my 53 years on this planet, so far. That includes grade school, high school, and my time in the military. (Time spent in the combat zone, notwithstanding.)

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Cool I've got a GUN! Yeah? So do I.....

    Quote Originally Posted by madmike
    P95,

    Of all the scenarios you've come up with, this is the one that I'd most likely have nightmares about!

    The instant the BG made that statement, I would likely move to make my weapon ready to draw, with my hand on the grips, while using Gideon's line, "So do I."

    At that time, I'd be observing him very closely, gauging his reactions, while hoping I'd be able to recall them later, should I have to justify whatever follows.

    But in the end, I suppose it does come down to things being just a bit easier in court, when only one side of the story is being told.

    I'll just have to hope that should I face such a decision, that instinct takes me down the right path. Thinking about such an event before it happens is proper, agonizing over it after the fact would be terrible.
    Debating it mentally during the event could be lethal.

    mm
    I gotta say, I'm with you and Gideon on this one. 100%
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Ex,

    That's a relief! I re-read my own post and have been wondering where the heck that came from!

    I mean, it does say exactly how I feel about the subject, but I don't usually "open up" like that, 'specially in public. (Still not quite sure what triggered it.)

    Best I can come up with is, I must feel pretty darned comfortable with the company here.

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array jarhead79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmike
    P95,

    Of all the scenarios you've come up with, this is the one that I'd most likely have nightmares about!

    The instant the BG made that statement, I would likely move to make my weapon ready to draw, with my hand on the grips, while using Gideon's line, "So do I."

    At that time, I'd be observing him very closely, gauging his reactions, while hoping I'd be able to recall them later, should I have to justify whatever follows.

    But in the end, I suppose it does come down to things being just a bit easier in court, when only one side of the story is being told.

    I'll just have to hope that should I face such a decision, that instinct takes me down the right path. Thinking about such an event before it happens is proper, agonizing over it after the fact would be terrible.
    Debating it mentally during the event could be lethal.

    mm
    I think that a fluid draw, reciting the above mentioned words, while closely watching his moves. I wouldn't hesitate for a second, though. If he doesn't have a gun, he'll be outta there before you can clear your holster. If he does, by the time you get your sights level, you'll know for sure and be giving that trigger a vigerous massage.
    www.ubgholsters.com short wait times. Use 'defensivecarry' as a coupon code for a discount to your order.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    First thing to the BG "Don't shoot!"...

    I then raise my weak-hand towards the front of the confrontation giving BG something else to focus on. As the hand comes up I tell the BG that "I'm reaching for my wallet! Please don't shoot!". My weak hand is already in postion to accept the draw from my strong side and is also giving the BG something else he has to focus on. I "reach" for my wallet but instead draw my CCW from concealment....

    This is where the tricky part comes into play. If said BG is only bluffing, I would expect him to hightail it out of there. Retreat to a safe spot, call 911, and then go on with your life. If said BG DOES have a gun then everything is out the window and you end up acting on your training and your instinct. Action beats reaction, move to cover, and attack with ruthlessness. Make sure you come out alive.

    What it boils down to is your perception of the threat. If your perception of the threat is that it is a vaild threat of serious bodily injury or death, then you have the right to defend yourself against that threat. You have to honestly believe that it is what it is. You also may now have to convince the jury of the same perception. Regardless of whether the BG has a weapon or not, if your perception is that you are in the immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death then you have the right to defend yourself from it. Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

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