Middle of night - door is kicked in - do you shoot?

This is a discussion on Middle of night - door is kicked in - do you shoot? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Any forceable entry into my home will immediately be met with lethal force. Period. Unfortunately, people are going to die that night, and if it's ...

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Thread: Middle of night - door is kicked in - do you shoot?

  1. #16
    CDH
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    Any forceable entry into my home will immediately be met with lethal force. Period.

    Unfortunately, people are going to die that night, and if it's me, then I at least died defending my home.

    Whether the other guys are police or not don't matter because at 2:AM, I'm not going to ask polite questions of people who just broke down my front door.
    The No-Knock entry is a direct assault on the Constitution, not just my home, and it's the judge who is at fault for over-riding my Constitutional rights by authorizing the attack on my home.

    I'm not suggesting in any way that I condone violence against police, I'm just saying that anyone, anyone who enters my home by force will be met with lethal force unless they are smart enough and quick enough to convince me that they mean me and my family no harm.

    I wonder how many wrongful deaths are going to have to happen before judges figure out that there is always a better way to affect an arrest besides kicking down doors of innocent people in the middle of the night.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Violent entry to my home will end violently, absolutely. There's almost no way to discern an "honest mistake" when that sort of entry is being made.
    Agreed, 100%.
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  4. #18
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Maybe someone can remind me. I must have forgotten. Isn't one of the 'Four Rules' to know your target?

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Maybe someone can remind me. I must have forgotten. Isn't one of the 'Four Rules' to know your target?

    When things are happening at high speed "knowing your target" becomes a very iffy thing. Any band of criminals can disquise themselves as police officers and bust down doors while yelling "POLICE, GET ON THE FLOOR". If you hesitate...............

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Maybe someone can remind me. I must have forgotten. Isn't one of the 'Four Rules' to know your target?
    yup, the target is who just forceably broke into my home


    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Maybe someone can remind me. I must have forgotten. Isn't one of the 'Four Rules' to know your target?
    Hmmm lets see. I know it's not my wife because she is in bed next to me. I know it's not my three year old son or my one year old daughter because they can't knock down doors with sledge hammers (and she can't climb out of her cribb). I know it is a bunch of people violently entering my home at night without my permission. I'd say that qualifies as knowing my target. I'd be willing to bet that it's 1000 times more likely that it's a BG dressed as a cop that just broke down my door than a real cop. BANG...BANG...BANG... If it is a real cop who gets shot it's his own darn fault for hitting the wrong house. I just hope I survive the gun fight.
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  8. #22
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    I was an LEO for 21 years and participated in many raids. All the raids I was involved in occurred during daylight hours. None of the raids were "no knock" raids and the person was given several seconds to answer the door after we announced ourselves. Many times we simply opened the door and walked in, most doors are unlocked during the day.
    Prior to any raid there was a thorough briefing and all officers were certain which house was going to be hit. The raid was always the result of a long term detailed investigation.
    During the many raids there wasn't a single incident of anyone being hurt, not a single shot was ever fired and we never hit the wrong residence.
    We dealt with several hardcore types and I often asked why they didn't resist. Typically they told me something to the effect "I looked out the window and saw all those police cars and figured the jig was up".
    Maybe the FBI needs to change their tactics.
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  9. #23
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    if my door is kicked in im rolling over grabbing my .45 and sending rounds towards the door until either A.) I'm dead or B.) they stop coming. My home is my castle and nothing illegal goes on here, i walk the straight and narrow and pay my taxes so there is no reason for them to come here beating my door down. like i said if it is a mistake made by the police and i live through the hail of gunfire, ill lawyer up and own the police dept.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Maybe someone can remind me. I must have forgotten. Isn't one of the 'Four Rules' to know your target?
    I know I'm not a criminal, and that my family is accounted for. The likelihood of it being a mistaken entry by law enforcement is about nil. Thus, I KNOW FOR A FACT that any unannounced, violent entry of my home is unwarranted and unjustified and darned near certain to be deadly (given that it's 2am and violent). I know what the laws in my state allow. I know what my response will likely be. I'll survive it if I'm able. 'Nuff said.
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  11. #25
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    The latest variation to the home invasion is BGs dressing and talking like LEOs.

    It's a lose-lose situation. You aren't going to call a time out to check for proper ID. If the homeowner starts defending himself against a perceived home invasion, someone is going to die and it is most likely the homeowner. It has happened before and it will happen again until no-knocks are outlawed.

    If the idea behind a no-knock is to get to the drugs before they flush them, why is the government wasting my money on such small-time dealers. Go after the ones with quantities too large to flush. Quit wasting scarce resources and risking officer's lives for small amounts of drugs.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911packer View Post
    If the idea behind a no-knock is to get to the drugs before they flush them, why is the government wasting my money on such small-time dealers. Go after the ones with quantities too large to flush. Quit wasting scarce resources and risking officer's lives for small amounts of drugs.
    How about, instead of ignoring our Constitutional rights, just turn off the sewer before the raid?

    Guess that may not be possible everywhere...
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    There is no illegal activity in my home. I also know the neighbors pretty well and could say the same for about 5 houses in any direction.
    If someone kicks in my door, the perceived threat will be met with enough force to stop the threat.
    I'll worry about who it was after the threat is ended.
    That's how I see it.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Maybe someone can remind me. I must have forgotten. Isn't one of the 'Four Rules' to know your target?
    I don't break the law. I can go buy all the police gear within 30 minutes of where I live and I can yell police as loud as anyone else. That doesn't make me police. Yes, there have been instances in my area of this happening.

    So how would you propose I verify that the armed men storming into my home are actually the police or BGs dressed as police?
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense
    Maybe someone can remind me. I must have forgotten. Isn't one of the 'Four Rules' to know your target?
    I guess it depends on what you mean by 'know your target'. But, in this case the 'target' is a serious, imminient threat not a target. And he/she is exhibiting very aggressive and threatening behavior.

    Under these conditions, the threat is 'known' - it's the guy breaking down your door to get to you. I believe shooting is justified.
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  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    I was an LEO for 21 years and participated in many raids. All the raids I was involved in occurred during daylight hours. None of the raids were "no knock" raids and the person was given several seconds to answer the door after we announced ourselves. Many times we simply opened the door and walked in, most doors are unlocked during the day.
    Prior to any raid there was a thorough briefing and all officers were certain which house was going to be hit. The raid was always the result of a long term detailed investigation.
    During the many raids there wasn't a single incident of anyone being hurt, not a single shot was ever fired and we never hit the wrong residence.
    We dealt with several hardcore types and I often asked why they didn't resist. Typically they told me something to the effect "I looked out the window and saw all those police cars and figured the jig was up".
    Maybe the FBI needs to change their tactics.

    Now THIS is the way all LE should be doing it - period.



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