scenerio where you AD into the perp

This is a discussion on scenerio where you AD into the perp within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard The Medical Examiner's determination of exactly when the perp expired might play a big role in how a case like this ...

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 37 of 37

Thread: scenerio where you AD into the perp

  1. #31
    VIP Member
    Array Miggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Miami-Dade, FL
    Posts
    6,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    The Medical Examiner's determination of exactly when the perp expired might play a big role in how a case like this is handled.
    How do I say this? In a case like the one presented, if you place yourself at the hands of the investigating parties, you might be setting yourself up for a long stretch in a room with a view to nowhere and a overly friendly room mate.

    Best advice I can give: Keep your booger hook off the bang stick.

    Second Best Advice: Some comments are starting to sound like conspiracy to withhold/destroy/tamper evidence...walking a very fine line here.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,524

    You will be in the hands of the investigating parties

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    How do I say this? In a case like the one presented, if you place yourself at the hands of the investigating parties, you might be setting yourself up for a long stretch in a room with a view to nowhere and a overly friendly room mate.

    Best advice I can give: Keep your booger hook off the bang stick.

    Second Best Advice: Some comments are starting to sound like conspiracy to withhold/destroy/tamper evidence...walking a very fine line here.
    Like it or not, in the scenario given by the op, you will INEVITABLY be in the hands of the investigating party and there will be nothing whatsoever you can do about that. The key to what charge might be filed will be whether or not the dude was dead after the first COM shot (when he hit the ground), or if a coup de grace was given; or was there really a trip and an accidental discharge---not unexpected in the circumstances but preventable. And note I used the word accidental because there would be so much going on, so fast, that tripping on your own feet (or the bedroom rug) or the kids toy, could be a real possibility.

    The other stuff about spouses getting in the way is mostly over the top "talk" for discussion purposes.

  4. #33
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    432
    The ME would have to determine if the first shots(s) were fatal or was the BG still alive for the second shot.
    There is No way* you can tell from that distance with a chest wound if he was dead.
    If the ME determined that the "accidential shot" killed him, whoops your on the hook. If he was down he was no longer an immediate threat and you shot him without cause.
    If he was dead already, and if the investigation can (physics) show it was accidential you might be ok, criminally, I think you'll be sued for something.

    Either way the media will have a field day and you have made a poop sandwich out of a legally justified shooting. The question is are you gonna have to eat that sandwich or just take a bite.
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams

  5. #34
    VIP Member
    Array TX-JB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sugar Land, TX
    Posts
    5,738
    It may depend on your state laws. As a retired LEO and instructor I was taught, and still teach today, that once deadly is justified there is no limit to how much deadly force is used. Now this may be dealing specifically with Texas laws, but let's look at it from that perspective.

    If you were justified in using deadly force, why would it matter if you shot the BG once, twice or ten times? His actions caused you to be in fear for your life and thus justified the use of deadly force. If he was dead with the first shot good, if he was not dead until the final shot in the head, he was still technically a threat. Whichever shot was the fatal one, doesn't mean that particular shot caused immediate incapacitation.

    Any shooting is going to put you in the hot seat for awhile until things are sorted out, but I don't see this scenario causing any real problems.
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

    Retired LEO
    Firearms Instructor
    NRA Life Member

  6. #35
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,056
    When I first read the OP I wrongly assumed that this was an event that had actually occurred.
    Then further on down I read that it was only a previous discussion of a purely hypothetical scenario.

    It's a real "rubber band stretch" of the Ol' Imagination.

    I guess it can stay here in Defensive Scenarios though since members seem interested in responding.

    What do I think??

    I think I need a stiff drink.

  7. #36
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,706
    Quote Originally Posted by TX-JB View Post
    It may depend on your state laws. As a retired LEO and instructor I was taught, and still teach today, that once deadly is justified there is no limit to how much deadly force is used. Now this may be dealing specifically with Texas laws, but let's look at it from that perspective.

    If you were justified in using deadly force, why would it matter if you shot the BG once, twice or ten times?
    Because once the threat ceases to be a threat, you are no longer justified in using deadly force. If you shoot him and he goes down, is not making any threatening movements, has dropped his weapon, etc, you are no longer justified in using lethal force. Period. If you can articulate that he was somehow still a threat, then you may be OK, but that is not the scenario in the OP. In that case, you "accidentally" shot someone in the head who posed no threat to you. That's murder, or negligent homicide at best.
    His actions caused you to be in fear for your life and thus justified the use of deadly force. If he was dead with the first shot good, if he was not dead until the final shot in the head, he was still technically a threat.
    How? How was he still "technically" a threat? Just because he's alive doesn't mean he's a threat... This is where your ability to clearly demonstrate that the severely wounded guy on the ground somehow still presented an imminent threat of death or grave bodily injury, and that this "threat" was so threatening that you tripped over him, rather than standing off, running away, calling the po-po, or whatever... Not an impossible task, of course, but not an easy one either.
    Whichever shot was the fatal one, doesn't mean that particular shot caused immediate incapacitation. Any shooting is going to put you in the hot seat for awhile until things are sorted out, but I don't see this scenario causing any real problems.
    I strongly disagree. Many people have faced VERY real problems from situations less "unclear" than this one. People have spent lots of time and money in court, and even more time in prison, because of "better" shoots than the one the OP described.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  8. #37
    Member Array bgriffin70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Enumclaw, WA
    Posts
    144
    After shooting BG as he entered the bedroom, you then go to kick his gun away from his hand when he still tried to get one last shot... you have no choice but to shoot once again.
    Boomer Sooner!

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Feelings about friends that carry? A scenerio
    By PRSOrator in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: May 6th, 2010, 03:30 PM
  2. likely real life scenerio, what do you think
    By tpurdin in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: December 11th, 2009, 08:13 PM
  3. Texas Gun Law and Scenerio
    By joeyrh9 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: December 10th, 2009, 06:01 PM
  4. Worse Case Scenerio
    By 9mmMick in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: October 19th, 2007, 10:09 AM
  5. Halloween Costumes Scenerio
    By Dakotaranger in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: November 16th, 2006, 09:10 AM