This is a discussion on A friend - robbed at gunpoint - this one is real within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Rcher This is a very likely situation and my first thought was .. "how would I handle it?" Other than total avoidance ...
"My friend, Bob - we'll say, and a friend, Tom we'll say, were walking one night at an apartment complex and saw a man walking toward them. When they got within about 10 feet, the man pulled a gun and told them to raise their hands, which they did. For the record, neither Bob or Tom had a gun. The perp had caught them between streetlights so lighting was minimized.
He maintained the distance, and told them to turn around, which they did. He then instructed them how to get and drop their billfolds on the ground, which they did.
He then instructed them to walk down a flight of stairs, which again, they did. They never saw him again.
Unarmed like the two friends? What choice do you have at 10 feet with a gun pointed at you but do as your are told. You are with another person and any actions on your part but compliance could result in his being injured or killed.
I don't like the idea of turning around, alone and unarmed, I don't know what I'd do as I don't have the benefit of an informed decision because I don't know what type of gun it was, how old or how big he was, his overall appearance, in essence------
the totality of the actual circumstances which is going to be an important aspect of any decision I make on the street.
Last edited by AzQkr; December 2nd, 2008 at 10:04 AM.
The mind is the limiting factor
Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor
If you want to play the percentages, you comply. For all the people that shoot compliant victims, there are many more that don't. Does he look like a kind criminal with a conscience?
The next set of percentages is the real gun question. Is it really a functioning firearm, an unloaded, malfunctioning, or toy gun? Based on the stories I read, good chance it is a toy, unchambered or unloaded. Did he stop 10 feet away so you wouldn't see the bad paint job on the orange barrel tip?
Next set of percentages is ability. Is this guy any good with that gun, and am I better? Chances are if you don't just stand there you won't get hit even if he does fire. Most of the time if you just run they miss you. If you can fire back those chances are even lower. Look at how many times professionals (LEO), and amateurs, (gangbangers) unload multiple guns at a crime scene and no one is hit.
Considering your buddies were unarmed they did good to get one of those honorable crooks with a functioning gun, or a smart crook with a non-functioning gun. Running was their only other real choice since they did not have a firearm to contest the results with.
This following is outside the original posting, because the victims were not armed.
The next set of percentages is the unacceptable set for me. I carry IWB an XD tactical in .45. Guy says turn, I turn. Guy says get out your wallet slowly, I get out my wallet. Guy says lift up your shirt/jacket/cover garment, now what? Now I am totally vulnerable and will be revealing something else this guy is going to want. He can't have my gun, can he? That would be really irresponsible. After all, the reason I carry is to prevent someone from taking things from me, especially my life, but also my gun. That chance is too great for me to allow myself to start complying. When faced with the threat of deadly force the only reasonable choice for a CCW person is to respond in kind, as quickly and accurately as humanly possible to stop the threat. Compliance is unacceptable because once begun you are put at an even greater disadvantage.
But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
LTC(RET) Dave Grossman
Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook
I've never carried two wallets.......think it's time to start.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
It all boils down to How Big Is Your Bag-O-Tricks?
The more you have... The more options you have at your disposal.
Often, I carry a throw-down wallet, or a distraction.
Most of the time, I carry a BUG. When walking in certain area's like mentioned in this scenario, often my BUG is in my hand, inside my pocket.
I can either shoot through a pocket or the BG has commanded me to perform a movement to get my wallet so he is going to expect me to remove my hand from my pocket in order to retrieve said wallet.
I also have training in disarming techniques and practice them regularly. (not saying I would attempt it in just any situation, but it's an option in my Bag-O-Tricks)
I try to be as aware as possible to see potential trouble along the way and will be on guard with anyone within range.
If I see a gun, I'm not just seeing a gun, but quickly focus on what type of gun, if there are any safeties on the gun, are they engaged.... etc, etc.
Bottom line is I can't predict what I am going to do in any given scenario as described in a forum such as this. I may indeed merely give up the cash and hope for the best. It all depends on how it plays out at the time.
However, I have trained for years and years and do practice. I have lots of options in my Bag-o-Tricks and until I can fully assess the situation, I can't fully say what I'm going to do.
But like BikerRn has stated, you can successfully draw against an already drawn gun and still be the winner. It does happen! It's just not necessarily advisable.
I just can't say whether I would or I wouldn't unless it was really happening and I can evaluate the situation in total using all my senses and knowing what's before me. I'm just not apt to leave my life in the hands of some other person without control over my destiny.
More than likely I'm going to counter-attack with such overwhelming show of violence and speed that I will overcome my opponent. I'm looking to disrupt his OODA Loop.
But you have to be prepared for stuff to happen in order to overcome. You can't be running around in condition white and fail to recognize a potential threat for what it is and expect to be successful in whatever you do.
Just be aware that the more training you have and more toys you have affords you with more options than say an unarmed person has. Or a person with only a gun and very little lethal force training.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
They are lucky they were not killed.
And this is the reason that I almost always carry a "throw Down" wallet in my back pocket. Some old canceled credit or charge cards, about $11 bucks in it. The real wallet or money is someplace else. This guy now has their home address and other improtant documents if they keep them in their wallets like most folks.
1) Why did they feel comfortable allowing a stranger withing arms reach (10 ft)?
2) Did they note pre-assault cues, or were they engrossed in a conversation about the Vols?
3) Why did they stay together, and not straddle the strangers approach?
4) Either of them have a light?
The successful confrontation is the one avoided. They survived. They provided the BG home addresses; make, model and VIN of their cars; credit cards; family photos, etc.. Not all muggers are only muggers. Some enjoy a little robbery or rape on the side.
Hello everyone. I'm Bob, or Tom, actually David but I was one of the guys that got robbed that night. We were walking back to my apartment after school. By the time we realized some one was walking up to us from behind and turned to look there he was with a large frame revolver pointed at us.
I still wonder about the state of mind of the perp. The lighting was marginal but still lit enough that I never considered complaining to the apartment managers. This all went down right in front of the doors to several other apartments so I'm not sure how well planned it was on the perps part. The most difficult part was being ten feet from the guy with a barrel pointed at my chest and being told to turn my back to him. I can remember how calm I was and how clear I was thinking. I was feeling no fear and I can remember deciding that I had no chance of getting to him before being shot, so I complied. It was one of the hardest desision I have ever had to make.
Luckily it proved to be the right decision for me on that evening as I am here and writing this.
Looking back, and I often do, I still don't think I would have done anything differently. That is not to imply that I would react the same way if it ever happens again.
I am appreciative of everyone's comments and welcome any questions or further comments.
Both should have bolted.
Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.
Easy said, Double.
"I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
My older brother, 74, has been robbed twice at gunpoint. Really tough pieces of [Edited] in my book. He doesn't live in this state and has never been a gun person.
Last edited by Captain Crunch; December 5th, 2008 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Deleted a language workaround.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
Thanks Capt. Crunch. Didn't relize I couldn't do that.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member