8th Grader shot by SWAT Officer
This is a discussion on 8th Grader shot by SWAT Officer within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060114/...hool_evacuated
SWAT Team Shoots 'Armed' Fla. 8th-Grader By KELLI KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer
26 minutes ago
LONGWOOD, Fla. - An eighth-grader was shot and wounded ...
January 13th, 2006 10:11 PM
8th Grader shot by SWAT Officer
SWAT Team Shoots 'Armed' Fla. 8th-Grader By KELLI KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer
26 minutes ago
LONGWOOD, Fla. - An eighth-grader was shot and wounded by a SWAT team officer in a school bathroom Friday after he pulled out a pellet gun that resembled a real weapon and later raised it at a deputy, authorities said.
Sheriff Don Eslinger said the 15-year-old boy brought the gun to Milwee Middle School in his backpack. Eslinger said two students saw it and one persuaded the other to report it, causing a scuffle.
The alleged gunman ordered one of the students into a closet, dimmed the lights and ran from the classroom. He then went around the campus carrying the weapon, Eslinger said. Deputies eventually isolated him in a restroom, and the school was evacuated.
Eslinger said negotiators tried unsuccessfully to start a dialogue with the boy, identified as Christopher David Penley.
"He did not respond," Eslinger said. "He refused to even comment. All he said was his first name. He did not drop the firearm."
When the boy raised the gun at a deputy, he shot the youth, the sheriff said.
Penley was taken to a hospital, where he was on "advanced life support," the sheriff said.
"He was suicidal," Eslinger said. "During this standoff, and during the chase, the student said he was going to kill himself or die." At one point, the boy held the gun to his own neck.
No one else was injured. The sheriff's office confirmed later that the weapon was a pellet gun fashioned to look like a 9mm handgun. The tip of the gun had been painted black, covering brightly colored markings that would have indicated it was nonlethal.
Investigators did not know why Penley brought the weapon to school. "We are looking into his past, and all kinds of different issues possibly." Eslinger said.
Classes were canceled for the rest of the day, and frantic parents arrived to pick up their children from the 1,100-student public school in suburban Orlando.
"When I saw the news, I just couldn't believe this was my daughter's school. I came right away," said Anil Santos, whose daughter, Aleister, is in eighth grade.
Sarah Tivy, 12, said some students were frightened, but she appeared calm.
"I just figured that if someone is going to bring a gun to school, then they need to be taken out of school," she said.
Kelly Swofford, a neighbor whose 11-year-old son is close friends with Penley, said he visited their home Thursday night and complained that "people were picking on him at school. I told him he needed to talk to his guidance counselor."
Her son Jeffery said Penley talked about wanting to die when the two had breakfast Friday morning. He said Penley had been fighting with another boy, allegedly over a girl.
"Everybody knew they were going to fight," Jeffery said. "I heard a rumor that he had a BB gun, but I didn't think he really had one."
Phone calls to Penley's home were not answered Friday, and a person who answered the door declined to comment.
As dusk fell, Marie Hargis stood in front of the school with a sign that read "Stop the violence." Her 14-year-old son and 13-year-old daughter attend Milwee.
"My youngest daughter is just very emotionally messed up. She started crying and said, `Mommy, I don't want to go back.' They should not fear having to go to school."
January 13th, 2006 10:14 PM
It looked just like a Beretta 92 in the photo they showed of it.
I feel for the cop who shot him.
Bad potential scenario for us CCWer's as well. Some kid could decide robbery is an easy way to score some cash and use a pellet gun or other "toy" gun. Of course we wouldn't know that and would probably react accordingly.
January 13th, 2006 10:35 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
I saw this today but I guess it may have been on another board.
My take is simply - no way should anyone (except suicidally inclined) do other than show BOTH HANDS IN CLEAR VIEW!!! Maybe he wanted to quit life.
I cannot impress enough on anyone - anything remotely resembling a firearm is - going to be assumed to be real. Heck, what else is a a cop (or one of us for that matter) gonna do?? Wait until a bullet dissects the body!??
I feel for the SWAT guy too - but - anyone without the brains to know what goes and what doesn't - is, well - SOL!!
To add - only other day - in Wally World, was noticing the airsoft stuff - holy moley those things look well real enough!! Could fool me in a ''situation''.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
January 13th, 2006 11:01 PM
The kid was suicidal.
He proved it
January 13th, 2006 11:59 PM
Another tragic part of the story will be the media crucifying the SWAT officer. Forget the facts, inject emotion.
If you don't protect your self, who will?
January 14th, 2006 12:10 AM
I read about this earlier.
The way the article explained the events in the bathroom. I did get the impression of "suicide by cop".
Honestly, I really donít know. I canít understand crazy people, Iím no professional, I wasnít there, and I donít believe half of what the press says.
These things just make me sad .
January 14th, 2006 05:37 AM
1952 - 2006
I saw the gun he used on the news next to a Beretta 92F, if I had been the one that was there, I would have shot him too.
I feel very sorry for the SWAT officer that had to shoot but the kid made an ignorant and foolish choice. If I recall my early education correctly (Euc, you may correct me if I'm wrong) this is called "The Law of Natural Selection".
Not to long ago some friends of mine were really into airsoft games and one of them showed me his MP5 airsoft gun. I recall telling him that if he pointed that thing in my direction and I didn't know who he was, even if I did, I'd shoot him just as fast as I could.
When faced with a belligerent person pointing a gun at you, you cannot take the time to ask yourself if it's real or not. At least not if you want to live a long life.
My .02 on the subject.
Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences
"I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
January 14th, 2006 07:26 AM
The kid had an airsoft pistol with the orange markings removed. There is no way the officer could have known it was not real.
Fortunately, I have not seen the local media trying to crucify the deputy involved.
January 14th, 2006 09:23 AM
A very unfortunate event. My prayers go out to the family and the officers involved. The officer did what he was trained to do and I hope level heads prevail. He will be going through enough without people pointing fingers of guilt and wrong doing at a person that did the only thing he could.
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
January 14th, 2006 12:34 PM
My heart goes out to all. It took years but the boy got what he sought in the end, a way out, or so he thought. Unfortunately his choice will cause a lot of pain for many. The officer who fired, his parents, the friend he told repeatedly that he wanted to kill himself, etc. It goes to show that there's no such thing as only "my business". We really can't do anything that doesn't have an affect on others. It's the whole reason why we voluntarily restrict our freedoms in any civilized nation because what you do affects me and vice versa. I just which someone could have talked to that boy and offered him another solution that he either didn't consider or didn't believe would work. Suicide is nothing more than a perverted model of problem solving. He solved his problem in a sad way and very likely knew it. I believe his moment of greatest clarity in all this came the second he raised that pellet gun toward officers with real guns pointed back at him.
If someone ever tells you they're going to kill themselves, you really need to take them serious and keep telling someone until someone listens and at leasts takes the first steps of intervention.
At the end of the day, it's perfectly normal to consider suicide as a solution to our pain, however, when we decide it's the only remaining solution, then it's no longer normal.
If we ever feel like you can imagine that kid did, I hope we'll seek out somebody to talk to. There are some problems that aren't readily solved but they all look better when brought into the light of day.
January 14th, 2006 12:38 PM
From the story in the Orlando Sentinel this morning, when the deputy confronted the kid, the deputy was between the kid and a couple classrooms full of other students.
IMHO, the deputy acted with courage placing himself between the other students and a student he believed had a real firearm. The student gave him no choice but to shoot to stop the threat.
January 14th, 2006 04:40 PM
As a professional mental health counselor that deals with kids. From, what I heard the kid was in a bathroom and placed the pistol to his head and then was shot. The kid could have been talked down and the whole scene could have been avoided. Kids are easy to talk down when they are angry. The normal route is to first make a connection with the kid. You might have to fish around little. For example talk about sports, video games etc.
Then, you praise the kid and let him know that he is has the ability to do well, and is a good kid. At this point the child will begin to vent and tell you why he is angry. Then you address the negative behavior that he is showing. " You are doing a great job talking to me and at this time it would be good if you placed the weapon down so we could feel more comfortable around you." What happend to the kid was that he freaked, I doubt he really wanted to pop himself. This was a cry for attention that went bad.
In closing they talk down adult maniacs every day, but you shoot a kid. I think this cop had a itchy finger and squeezed. I don't know. I guess some procedures will be rethought. This should have never happended. I also blame the parents. Kids should always be handled differently in these situations in my opinion. Obviously, the team member was not trained to deal with situation as such and especially a kid. However, common sense should have prevailed.
Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....
January 14th, 2006 07:08 PM
The articles I have read say that the boy pointed the gun at his own neck at one point, but was only shot when he pointed the gun towards the SWAT officer. He was sucidal for awhile and I think that this was suicide by cop.
He will ultimately do some good as his organs are being harvested.
Lawyer: Teen Shot by Police Brain Dead By KELLI KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer
57 minutes ago
LONGWOOD, Fla. - The 15-year-old boy shot by police while brandishing a pellet gun in a middle school bathroom was clinically brain dead Saturday but was being kept alive to harvest his organs, his family's attorney said.
Christopher Penley was expected to die Saturday night, said family attorney Mark Nation.
"His organs are in the process of being harvested," Nation told reporters outside a hospital.
Earlier, Kelly Swofford, a family spokeswoman and neighbor of the boy's parents Ralph and Donna Penley, said the boy had died and that the family was "devastated."
Penley, of Winter Springs, was accused of pulling the pellet gun in a classroom Friday and pointing it at other students before forcing one into a closet, then leading deputies and SWAT team members on a chase that ended in a school bathroom.
When he raised the gun at a deputy, a SWAT team member shot him, authorities said.
Officers who had responded to the 1,100-student school in suburban Orlando believed the gun was a Beretta 9mm, and didn't learn until after the shooting that it was a pellet gun.
Police had said Friday night that the boy was on "advanced life support." The hospital refused to release any information Saturday.
"Everybody in the whole neighborhood is really upset," Paul Cavallini, who lives across the street from the Penleys, said Saturday. "He was a quiet kid ó polite and everything. He was just a normal teenager."
However, friends and investigators say he was also bullied and emotionally distraught, and went to school that day expecting to die.
Patrick Lafferty, a 15-year-old neighbor who has known Penley about six years, said he wasn't surprised by what happened. He said Penley was a loner who "told me he wanted to kill himself dozens of times."
"He would put his headphones on and walk up and down the street and he would work out a lot," preferring to keep to himself, Lafferty said.
Swofford said the boy had run away from home several times. Her 11-year-old son, Jeffery Swofford, said Penley had said he had something planned.
"He said `I hope I die today because I don't really like my life,'" Jeffery Swofford said.
At a news conference following the shooting Friday at suburban Orlando's Milwee Middle School, authorities put the pellet gun side-by-side with a Beretta. It appeared to have black paint covering the red or pink markings on the muzzle that may have indicated to officers that it was a nonlethal weapon.
"As you can see, it doesn't take a professional to see how close this looks to the real thing. I would not be able to tell the difference," said Joyce Dawley, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement special agent in charge of the investigation.
Seminole County Sheriff Don Eslinger said the incident began about 9:38 a.m., when another student saw Penley with the weapon and struggled with him for it. Pointing the gun at the other student's back, Penley directed him to a closet, dimmed the lights and left the classroom, Eslinger said.
The school went into lockdown.
From there, the sheriff said, Penley traversed the school campus before ending up in a bathroom. By then, more than 40 officers, including SWAT and negotiators, were on scene. He refused to drop the firearm, Eslinger said, and was shot after pointing it at a SWAT deputy.
"The student said he was going to kill himself or die," Eslinger said.
Jeffery Swofford said Penley had been in a disagreement with someone, allegedly over a girl. There was going to be a fight Friday, he said. "I heard a rumor that he had a BB gun, but I didn't think he really had one," he added.
At the school Friday, Marie Hargis, whose son and daughter attend Milwee, held a sign that read "Stop the violence."
"My youngest daughter is just very emotionally messed up," she said. "She started crying and said, `Mommy, I don't want to go back.' They should not fear having to go to school."
January 14th, 2006 08:02 PM
Negative. He was shot only after he stopped pointing the gun at himself, and pointed it at a deputy who was between the kid and a room full of students.
Originally Posted by BlueLion
You are proceeding from an erroneous basis (that the kid was shot while holding the pistol to his own head), therefore your conclusions are also erroneous.
Originally Posted by BlueLion
The deputy fired to stop what he perceived as an imminent lethal threat to himself and to the room full of kids behind him when the kid pointed the gun at him.
Please, read the facts before you label the deputy as being some trigger happy, undertrained idiot. You do both him and yourself a disservice when you make unsupported allegations.
January 14th, 2006 08:07 PM
This is perfect example of why BB guns, pellet guns, paintball guns, airsoft guns, etc. SHOULD NOT be manufactured to look like real guns.
NOTHING OTHER THAN A REAL GUN SHOULD LOOK LIKE A REAL GUN!
Guns don't kill people - bad people (and stupid people) with guns kill people!
Some personal favorites:
Kimber Ultra Carry II, Glock 23, Colt AR-15
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