Approached leaving CVS Pharmacy

This is a discussion on Approached leaving CVS Pharmacy within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let's have a go, shall we? It's 2000 hours, your fiance/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/dog (I don't want to hear anyone say I am discriminatory) has one of her ...

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Thread: Approached leaving CVS Pharmacy

  1. #1
    Member Array NickEMT's Avatar
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    Approached leaving CVS Pharmacy

    Let's have a go, shall we?

    It's 2000 hours, your fiance/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/dog (I don't want to hear anyone say I am discriminatory) has one of her "cravings" for ice cream and begs you to go to CVS with her, which is two minutes away. You agree and put on your holster with your handgun. Your slightly tired so she drives. As you sit in the passenger seat and buckle your seat belt, you're amazed on how dark it is for only being 2000. You arrive at your destination and you scan the area as you get out of the car. Everything looks ok so you and your fiance enter the store. Your fiance spends 20 minutes deciding on what kind of ice cream she wants. Finally she makes her decision, you pay, and you both walk out of the store. You walk towards your car. As you close to within 20 yard of your car, an unkempt white male adult in his early 40's with his hands at his sides steps out from in between 2 SUV's with tinted glass about 10 yards away. You and your fiance stop walking, and the man says, "Hey guys, I'm sorry to bother you, I seem to be missing a couple bucks for the bus, could you spot me?. You reply, "Sorry man, don't carry cash". You start to walk again expecting him to move but he says, "C'mon bro, I know you got some cash, can't you hook me up?" This perturbs you a little bit so you say, "Look man, I'm not giving you any money, now get out of my way so we can get into our car and go home" in a masculine tone. As soon as you finish saying these words, the man gets an irate look on his face, both hands go into his jacket pockets and he says, "No, you look here!".

    Stop

    What do you do? Do you run? There wasn't any hazards on your way out to your car that might endanger your lives if you retreat. Do you go hands on? You have about an inch and 40 pounds on the guy. Do you draw on the man?

    Let's see how everyone would handle this. I will reply after a couple peeps comment.
    Last edited by HotGuns; December 10th, 2008 at 09:30 AM. Reason: word edited out
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickEMT View Post
    ...the man says, "Hey guys, I'm sorry to...
    Interrupt. Left hand raised low in the universal "stop" gesture, and: "Don't got any." Anything other than backing up and saying sorry on his part is asking to gargle OC.

  4. #3
    Member Array Red82's Avatar
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    Since his hands go into his pockets and with his tone my hand at least gets a grip on my weapon at this point. I don't have a ton of experience carrying so I'm not exactly sure. I don't want to be the last one drawing a weapon though that's for sure.

    Depending on where I am I'd probably change directions... like turn from the side walk and start walking through some cars to put some distance between us. Cover the wife till she gets in the car if nothing else has escalated between this time. I'm not totally sure... I also just woke up :)... but there are my first thoughts.
    Protection is a responsibility not just a right.

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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    "What do you do? Do you run? There wasn't any hazards on your way out to your car that might endanger your lives if you retreat. Do you go hands on? You have about an inch and 40 pounds on the guy. Do you draw on the man?"
    Where I live if you were to draw on every guy that hits you up for spare change you would end up losing your permit. I hardly think someone asking for a handout is a threat to your life and warrants display of your firearm. Give the guy a buck, step away, retreat..whatever....but keep your hands off your weapon. You don't want to be perceived as the party that escalated the encounter in the event things go south.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    You could reply. "If you want I'll call the cops for you and they will put you on the bus at no charge and get you were you need to be."

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    Hopefully you and the person with you have gone over different scenario's and they know what to do, ie. move to the rear and out of the line of fire. The next part will become tricky. I would move the opposite direction while drawing my weapon. We still don't know of perp. has a weapon or not, so I would not fire until sure. Odds are that even if armed he will withdraw the weapon from the pocket before firing due to having a semi auto not cycling properly or revolver hammer getting caught in the clothing. If he draws a weapon stop the threat, if his hands come out empty I'd order him to the ground and have companion call 911. If he complys fine, if not let him go. I'd be ready to holster my weapon as soon as I see the police arrive. Explaining exactly what happened. Since you have a witness that he became aggressive and feared your safety, it is not a your word against his situation.
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    VIP Member Array Dal1Celt's Avatar
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    How close is he when he reaches inside his digs??
    "Without fear there can be no Courage!"

  9. #8
    Member Array NickEMT's Avatar
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    I have to disagree with you Rotorblade. I have no problem with someone asking me for a buck. But when they don't back away after I tell them politely I don't have any money, continue not to back away when I tell them to, and put their hands in their pockets, preparing to draw a weapon for all I know, that is where I have a problem. I would handle it like this. The minute the guy darts out from between the SUV, my hand would be ready to grab my cover garment and lift it up, (I lift and draw with my right hand), the minute he doesn't move and continues to pester I would have my hand grabbing my cover garment, and the minute he yells and goes into his pockets I would draw on him. To me, I gave him chances. A) Told him I didn't have money for him B) Told him to move C) Gave him time to move. Him yelling and thrusting his hands into his pockets gives me a feeling he is out to harm my fiance and I and I will defend myself and her from that. Just my opinion . . . .
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    Member Array NickEMT's Avatar
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    Good question Dal1Celt, to make it easy on everyone, when he reaches into his pockets he is within 21 feet.
    "People should not be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people".
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  11. #10
    Member Array NickEMT's Avatar
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    Archer51, I should have added, when I draw, I would not fire till I saw a weapon, or he fired through his pocket. I would command him to show me his hands, if he did so, I would order him prone on the ground and tell my fiance to call 911. If he ran I would let him run, drive 2 minutes to my house so I am in a safe area, and call 911. The reason why I would leave the scene is because he could be running around aiming for a counter attack.
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    Member Array bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickEMT View Post
    ...or he fired through his pocket.
    Errr....too late at that point?
    I think clearing leather at your point in the scenario is appropriate, but the question is when do shoot? Tough call.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Dal1Celt's Avatar
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    Depending on if there is anything obstructing between us. I may close distance for take down, while my better half is on cell with 911. Only I might add, IF I think he has a weapon. Otherwise, we are backing away, with my hand on my grip, back towards the CVS, while my better half is on cell with 911.
    "Without fear there can be no Courage!"

  14. #13
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    I have had that happen, and I became even more unfriendly looking than I already am...
    In a loud, unfriendly voice (and I try to add particular adjectives that a low-life will easily understand) I announce to get back and leave me alone, my left hand signals the universal stop, and my right hand goes under my jacket or cover shirt (though the reason is still a guess on the part of the panhandler) to be closer to my sidearm. (This is easily done with my IWB/SOB.)
    The last occasion in a food mart parking lot had the panhandler walking away mumbling something about me being 'crazy'...fine with me.
    In your situation, I wouldn't wait for any further communication with the approaching individual. I'd immediately change directions to get back into CVS. If the guy doesn't take the hint after your first refusal, you need to recognize that this is a problem you need to 'excuse' yourself from...NOW!

    Stay armed...be assertive, quickly...stay safe!
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    First, if I could not avoid the encounter, I would circle him so that I could keep my eyes on him and see what was behind me in my former position. I don't want his 'buddy' coming up behind me while he holds my attention. If it's dark, or even dusky, I'd have my handheld tac light out. If he breeches my comfort zone, the light goes in his eyes. If he should get 'rough' the handheld would be a pretty decent weapon to multiply the effectiveness of blows if required - and I might not skin up my hands!!!!

    If his hands, go in his pockets, I'd ask him to stay back, and ask him if he'd mind taking his hands out of his pockets. All the time, I could be making my way back into the store. If I/we can't do that, my wife would have 911 on the phone by now and be talking loudly so he could hear. I would do everything I could to maintain as much distance as I could.

    The conflict I'd have is I don't mind giving him a dollar or so, in fact, most of the time, I'm glad to. But it's a compromised position to have to hold a wallet to get a dollar. It's awfully tempting to look down at your wallet and that makes you more vulnerable. He could lunge forward, grab the wallet and be gone. Still that's better than getting hurt, or shooting someone.

    The real issue is, we can watch and assess, but we simply can't accurately predict how the encounter is going to turn out. If it's just money, give some money to break the encounter and avoid possible escalation. But if it isn't that clean...then the situation must drive the response.
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  16. #15
    Member Array smotta's Avatar
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    I agree with Nick, but before I ordered his hands out of his pockets I'd order him to turn and face away from me. I don't want him knowing where I'm standing if in fact he is planning to pull a pistol from that pocket.
    "In God we trust, as for the rest of you... keep your hands where I can see them" - Unknown

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