CC for SD, not to defend others.

This is a discussion on CC for SD, not to defend others. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Thanis So often on this site I see threads about sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. Why is the only honorable option being a ...

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Thread: CC for SD, not to defend others.

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    So often on this site I see threads about sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. Why is the only honorable option being a sheepdog when it comes to SD and CC?
    Perhaps it is Biblical in origin -- something about two guys walking on the other side of the road to avoid having to look at the dreadful sight of the beat-up traveler (I call them sheep), while the third man came to the traveler's aid (I call him the sheep dog).

    It is your choice to look out only for number one, or your concerns may extend further. After all for every sheep dog, there needs to be a few sheep.

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    I'm not paid to defend other people with my pistol.
    There is no "good Samaritan" law in TN. Try to save someone from a burning car and they can sue you.
    The mugging I walked up on might be a DEA agent taking down a bad guy.

    Now...if I SEE the little old lady get out of the cab, and I SEE the bad guy about to knock her in the head with a bat and steal her purse, I'm not going to stand idly by and let it happen.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    ...The other Ten Percent of the population is Good. They understand what goes on around them, they educate themselves by various means and they understand the struggle of good vs. evil. These are the people that lead others into the realization that there is much more to life than what the eye can see or what the ear can here. These are the people that battle evil, the same evil that has always existed in various forms. These are the ones that believe in a higher authority than themselves, the ones that would put their lives in jeopardy for someone they don't know, because it is the right thing to do....
    There are many situations where good people, heroes, would not put their lives in jeopardy for someone they don't know, because it is the right thing to do. These are the people, that lead others into the realization that there is much more to life than what the eye can see or what the ear can hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    Perhaps it is Biblical in origin --...
    ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS by Dave Grossman is what I'm refering to (is being refered to), not something Biblical.

    The only Biblical refrences I can think of that might apply would be the golden rule, good samaritan, live by the sword / die by the sword, greater love to lay down one’s life, etc. Biblical refrences cut a close edge to forum rules and can be inturpeted many ways and beyond the scope of this thread.
    Last edited by Thanis; December 17th, 2008 at 12:06 AM. Reason: grammer, hear, not here.

  5. #64
    Senior Moderator
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    Thanis, have you been having a problem with double posting lately?
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  6. #65
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Thanis, have you been having a problem with double posting lately?
    Not sure what you are referring to. If you are not being sarcastic, then my answer is yes. Something going on with my computer or provider. Also I installed an HP printer and I think it is giving vista a hard time. So I deleted a few double posts.

    If being sarcastic, I will answer no, I'm just pointing out that your absolute good vs evil defination on how to respond can include a would or would not. It is not as clear defined as it should be given the absolutes (good vs evil).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    There are many situations where good people, heroes, would not put their lives in jeopardy for someone they don't know, because it is the right thing to do. These are the people, that lead others into the realization that there is much more to life than what the eye can see or what the ear can hear...
    There are to many variables in RL. 3rd party examples given by others in this thread for example. There are many situations where something evil (perhaps because it yearns to do good) does good and something good unknowlingly does evil.

    However I fully agree, and restated in my post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    ... there is much more to life than what the eye can see or what the ear can hear...
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    ...there is much more to life than what the eye can see or what the ear can hear...
    This is often why good people can do something evil without the intent of doing wrongful harm.

    PS - I can't agree with your % of good & evil, but that is a different thread.
    Last edited by Thanis; December 17th, 2008 at 12:11 AM. Reason: grammer

  7. #66
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    No I wasnt being sarcastic. Once I had a mouse that had a hair trigger on it. That sucker would post 3 or 4 times before you could let off. I spent alot of time deleting posts till I figured it out. I got a lazer mouse and that ended it.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  8. #67
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Just asking a question.

    I think it is important to help others, but why does honor and charity extend to defending others who have not armed themselves.

    I might, defend someone, I might not. But my #1 goal when I practice with a handgun and CC is to defend myself and my family (maybe friends) in a SD situation.

    So often on this site I see threads about sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. Why is the only honorable option being a sheepdog when it comes to SD and CC?
    I agree 100%!!!

    Bobo
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  9. #68
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I carry to protect my life and the lives of my family.

    If I am by myself, and I see an innocent person get attacked, that is to say, I witness the attack from the beginning, I *may* attempt to defend that 100% innocent person. However, I would not count on that.

    I do not know either party, I do not know if what I just saw is what I think it is or not. So I will most likely call the police and be a good witness.

    If my family is with me, there is no way I am going to intervene. My job when with my family is to get them out of harms way and to safety.

    Now, if the situation is a child being abducted, that changes everything. I will intervene in the event that I witness a child being abducted. Children are always innocent victims and I will fight to stop an abduction. If you would not, that is your own choice but I can only tell you this: being a father changes a lot of things for you. And I am a father 5 times over.
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  10. #69
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    You see a car schreech to a halt in front of some elementary school kids in front of a movie theater. A man jumps out and grabs one of the kids and throws the kid in the car. Child abductor or PO'd parent getting their kid who was grounded and snuck out the bedroom window?
    You sure about that?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I plan to help. I think that 100 years ago in this country this topic would have seemed ridiculous. EVERY person would answer "of course" we would help others.
    It is because of the op's attitude (and others like him) that crime and criminals are flourishing in the US today. Selfishness is killing our country in every way. Protect an innocent? Uhmm no. Help our community? Uhmm no. Practice ethical business principles? Uhmm no.

    Forum rules prohibit me from using words like "cowardly" so at this time I'll sign off.
    100 years ago it would have been considered the thing to do. If you didn't step in you probably would have been labeled a coward. Maybe run out of town.

    100 years ago the local government would probably have stepped in and taken your side in the mater.

    100 years ago the people you would be protecting would not try to sue you after you saved them. They would have thankfully taken care of any injuries they received during the action.

    100 years ago the local government would not have jumped in on the side of the criminal. They would not have prosecuted you. You would not have to sell your house in order to protect your self against the possible charges.

    The world is not as simple today. Whats right is not allways in your best interest.

    Michael

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    You see a car schreech to a halt in front of some elementary school kids in front of a movie theater. A man jumps out and grabs one of the kids and throws the kid in the car. Child abductor or PO'd parent getting their kid who was grounded and snuck out the bedroom window?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    You sure about that?
    It's sort of deja vu all over again.

    I've got to drink less diet cola in the evenings.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  13. #72
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    It's sort of deja vu all over again.

    I've got to drink less diet cola in the evenings.
    I meant to quote TN_Mike in that post, my bad.

    It's not so much drinking the diet cola as it is the vapor you inhale every time you take a drink.

    mlr1m - Great post, and excellent point!
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    It's not so much drinking the diet cola as it is the vapor you inhale every time you take a drink.
    I do not have the vapors ... contrary to common opinion. *burp*

    Was just joshin' you. It was the low-hangin' fruit, though. Certainly, at 2am it was the most interesting thing being posted.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #74
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    This is a cruel world that is growing worse daily. One must learn to take care of himself/herself and the family.

    We arm ourselves to be able to defend ourselves and our families, not the neighborhood, not the shoppers in the parking lot, and not even the neighbors who are dealing with crime.

    Stepping into a situation that is clearly not directed at us personally is, in my opinion, walking a very thin line between jail and law suits.

    We are not protectors of the public...we do not arm ourselves to protect and serve, but to avoid trouble.

    I will be a good witness and call 911. There are just too many variables in any potential crime situation of which we might not be aware.

    My involvement in any scenario that has the potential for violence and the use of a weapon will be a situation in which I have no other viable option i.e., run, hide, call 911, apologize, avoidance, etc.

    Stay armed...protect the family...stay safe!
    Very well said, and worth quoting again!

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