Warning them off before they get near you is the best way to go.
This is a discussion on What do you say? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Warning them off before they get near you is the best way to go....
Warning them off before they get near you is the best way to go.
That I am most proud that my carry pistol sports night sights?What would you say?.......what would your body language communicate....
Last edited by Ram Rod; December 15th, 2008 at 12:38 AM.
The individuals would not of been given that chance to get close enough to me to strike up any kind of conversation. Even before I obtained my CPL I avoided such things by moving to the other side of the street, or other option. I live by a simple rule D.T.A. Don't Trust Anyone.
"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. "
Best words of wisdom from my Master Emperor Palpatine
Full alert mode.
My revolver's grip would already be in my hand. During winter, in my coat pocket, discretely pointed (hopefully unseen) ready for use. "Sorry I can't help, stay away..." as I keep up the pace.
Anyone asking me for money or directions in a dark parking lot is an impolite jerk (filtered wording). In contrast to some posts I have made (even today) I blame such action as helping BG, because it allows the BG to mimic such behavior.
I have a strong dislike for people who think it is appropriate to approach a stranger in a dark parking lot to ask for directions or money.
I give change to bums on the street all the time. Sometimes they don't even ask. I know my actions may be part of the problem, but I'm not the cause.
However there is a huge line that is crossed if that same (censored) bum harasses me for change in a dark parking lot.
After having spent many years walking the streets in the seedier parts of NYC at all hours of the night I agree with Thanis,"I have a strong dislike for people who think it is appropriate to approach a stranger in a dark parking lot to ask for directions or money."
I would have my pistol in hand and would be happy to show it if they got within 20 feet of me after I had changed direction or crossed the street. No verbal in this case...
Keep my distance and say that "I am not from around here" If they insist them directions are not what they want. Take them off guard by saying, "just ask that cop" while pointing behind them. It will redirect them as they will feel compelled to look. Get some space from them. If they pursue, its on. papa
I'd yell at them, "Hey guys, come take a look at this. I just got some new cyanide tipped hollow points in my mega super capacity mag for my bad blaster ultra and I want your opinions on how they work on the local scum".
If they were indeed trying to intercept me at about 20 feet I'd tell them to not come any closer. Now let me interject myself here and say that granted a call to the police about two dangerous looking individuals would be the right thing to happen in a perfect world. That way they would have audio of what happens next and the police would already be on their way. If I had three hands that's what I'd do. I digress, if they kept on coming, I would loudly and authoritatively (it'd probably sound squeaky and high pitched), tell them that that is FAR enough, blah blah blah, while shining them in the eyes with my flashlight (180-250ish lumens depending on which light it is and maybe a strobe). I'm keeping in mind here that if I run, I'll only prolong the inevitable. If they still continued towards me, I'd pull my gun out as it is obvious that they were up to no good, or they were deaf and blind. Yell at them that I'll shoot if they come any closer. At that range, I'd have a chance, any closer, and I'd need the force. If they run (the desired outcome), I'd call the police and make a report. If they continue, shoot the closest one first and keep shooting until they stop. Reload and call the police, while asking them to send some toilet paper and and extra pair of pants.
Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen.
"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" (Latin)- "If you want peace, prepare for war".
The way the guys twice crossed the street to be in his path at 2:00 AM in them morning on a desolate street was plenty enough reason to brandish when he did. To fire, no, not yet. That would have required continued aggression on the part of the two guys.
I would have done exactly the same thing at the same time. For my part, I would have drawn and simply said: "You need to run... NOW".
I've always wondered how a court would rule if you actually used deadly force on someone that approached you late at night, didn't have a weapon, but refused your commands to stop and not get closer even when you displayed your firearm. Suppose the guy was just mentally unbalanced but not really dangerous (as determined later during court proceedings). Can you really sell the fact that you feared for your life to a jury? Do you have to wait until the guy displays a weapon, goes hands on with you or makes a threat? The guy could simply have the mental capacity of a 6 year old and want to chat you up. This is the scenario that scares me the most...
I had a situation not completely unlike this when in the service. I was a USAF SP and guarding an alert aircraft hangar and taxiway. The taxiway was clearly marked with red lights and many do not enter signs. My orders were to not ever let anyone approach the hangar from the runway side. We were told to wave off any vehicles that inadvertently turned down the taxi way. No one EVER came out there at night. One night about at about 2am here comes a car up the ramp and turns down the taxiway. I approach and start waving him off but he keeps coming and I'm in his headlights yelling and gesturing like mad. I jacked a round in my M-16 and leveled it the hood of the car as he was about 50 yards out and he keeps coming, creeping along at 5 mph. He was way past the point of no return boundary line and I'm struggling with the idea of doing what I was trained to do (shoot to stop the threat and defend the site) or not. Figured I would get in trouble either way.
Ended up not shooting, and the car stopped just in front of me. Two pilots roll out of the car stinkin drunk. I had to sit down for thirty minutes before I stopped shaking...these idiots never realized how close they came.
I think the only thing that saved them and me was the fact that I had about 10 seconds with them in my sights to have this "shoot or don't shoot" debate in my head. I was 18 at the time and pretty green!
Sorry if I rambled a bit. I guess my point is that if you are in a defensive situation and you have little or no time to think, it might be somewhat easier to pull the trigger, when given time the doubts creep in. Now that I re-read this it probably isn't all that relative to the original post but since I spent 20 minutes typing this I gotta hit the submit button!
Actually, it seems to me that a few of you may be wound a bit too tight. No offense meant to anyone, but a few mentioned circumstances that I had in mind when I originally posted. This guy (or guys), don't show a weapon or obvious intent to harm....but, they get too close for my comfort; and perhaps don't stop when I ask/tell them to. I can appreciate those who suggested having gun in hand or perhaps placing hand on/near it. However, it seems a little over the top to me to actually draw, let alone shoot someone who is not threatening/attacking. It's that gray area that caused me to ask advice in the original post. Again, I appreciate everyone's thoughts. Thanks
Preventing 2 guys from getting face to face with me, after I changed my direction in a obvious attempt to avoid them is in my opinion not being too tightly wound but maybe attempting to stay alive.
I foam at the mouth and spit up blood, people usually leave me alone.
I keep my distance and answer thier question if I can.
“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein,
My standard reply to someone approaching in a situation like you described is, with off hand held up to indicate STOP, say in a commanding voice, "I CAN'T HELP YOU"! Then play 'em as I see 'em.
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Somewhere I think this thread has gotten lost. For the record, I'm a psychologist, long time handgunner, (just got my CCW). Have studied martial arts...took unarmed and knife for four years. On the down side, I'm coming up on 62years old...in fairly good shape and have a definitely "martial" attitude and background. The thought of killing someone is not something I take lightly, although I actually don't think I'd lose any sleep, given the right circumstances. But, given my training, in both areas, I realize that few situations are "clear cut" and that something always precedes the "shot". I'm looking for "insight", thoughts and real world advice that may be helpful to all of us. Thanks
""I'm looking for "insight", thoughts and real world advice that may be helpful to all of us. Thanks.""
Well what are your thoughts? What would you do? Would you let someone get in your space on a dark night if you tried to avoid them and then asked them to back off? 2 against one in an isolated area, dark of night, you have martial arts training, maybe they do as well.
Just looking for some insight.
I wouldn't risk it. I would draw if they got within 20 feet. Any closer and I would fire.