What do you say?

This is a discussion on What do you say? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Dang bosco.....lighten up my friend. If you shot two guys twenty feed away who had made no aggressive moves and who may not have even ...

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Thread: What do you say?

  1. #31
    Member Array 390beretta's Avatar
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    Dang bosco.....lighten up my friend. If you shot two guys twenty feed away who had made no aggressive moves and who may not have even been armed, you'd be in prison. Let's not let this become a pissin' contest. Thanks

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    act normal, why would you act differently ?? Because it's night out ?

    If they act aggressively or become a threat, then deal with it appropriately to the threat.

    I would keep more distance though. If I was uncomfortable for any reason due to their actions, I would get in my car and leave... telling them "sorry , but I gotta go".

    The more you display "normalacy" and confidence, the more you disarm them.
    I had one bad guy tell me once, I wasn't going to test you..... you were too confident and I figured you had to have something on your side that I didn't want to find out about..... or you wouldn't have been that confident.

  4. #33
    Member Array ekillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boscobeans View Post
    I wouldn't risk it. I would draw if they got within 20 feet. Any closer and I would fire.
    bosco
    You need to reassess your plan of action or you will wind up in prison in the next 10 years. That would not even be a "gray" shooting. That would be a bad shooting and if you were luuuucky a weapon would be found ont he person or people. Then you would need more luck not to get arrested or sued. 20 feet? Have some respect for other people's lives. People make dumb decisions all the time. Most people lack the ability to think empathetically and realize how disconcerting their approach is. If they KNOW for a fact they are going to ask you how to get to iHop they just assume that you do not perceive them as a threat. But you're gonna shoot Joe College when he just wanted some pancakes. You need to put your guns away until you have rethought what it will take to cause you to draw and fire your weapon.

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    Dark street, 2 guys, walking in my direction, I change direction and cross the street, they cross to follow, obvious I want nothing to do with them, they continue in my direction, I am not a track star or foolish enough to think about taking on 2 men with unknown motives. I will draw my pistol and they continue to close on me:

    What do you recommend?
    bosco

  6. #35
    Member Array jdivence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenInColo View Post
    OP,

    Anubis is right. 8' is way too close.
    21' is too close for me in this type of situation. Read the threads about the FBI 21 foot rule. As stated before crossing the street more than one time is a good indicator of their intent.
    God invented cops so that firemen could have heroes too!

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    By the way I have safely carried for over 30 years and do have the utmost respect for human life. I have only drawn once in an armed robbery situation when a moron walked into my place of business announcing that he had a gun. I confronted him with my pistol only to find out he was a customer who was playing a practical joke on my clerk. He pleaded stupidity and was sorry he got me SO UPSET.

    One other part of the story is that he was an off duty port of authority policeman.

    The trigger will always be a last resort for me, but it is there for a reason and if I have exhausted my options I will use it.
    bosco

  8. #37
    Member Array ekillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boscobeans View Post
    Dark street, 2 guys, walking in my direction, I change direction and cross the street, they cross to follow, obvious I want nothing to do with them, they continue in my direction, I am not a track star or foolish enough to think about taking on 2 men with unknown motives. I will draw my pistol and they continue to close on me:

    What do you recommend?
    bosco
    Well now you've added a lot of factors that increase the threat level and it's obviously not Joe College look for directions to iHop. This is a situation where you do want you use verbal commands though. Cops are taught to say phrases like "Don't make me shoot you". This is something any armed citizen can employ if granted enough time. Inform them you have a problem with them approaching you. Let them know you perceive it as a threat. Ideally those things can be done verbally before making a weapon visible. If you draw a weapon and they continue to advance well from there, depending on the totality of the circumstances, I can see a shooting being justified. But if you can articulate to a prosecutor, judge, or jury that all of these things entered the equation before the shooting, that you warned them ahead of the shooting then you stand a much better chance of being no-billed or being found innocent if it goes that far then you would have if you tell those same people. "I perceived them as a threat and once they got within 20 feet of me I opened fire". I don't know if people talk about it much here but your ability to articulate why you fired your weapon is very, very important after the fact when the law is deciding to prosecute or not.

  9. #38
    Member Array PocketRocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
    Actually, it seems to me that a few of you may be wound a bit too tight. No offense meant to anyone, but a few mentioned circumstances that I had in mind when I originally posted. This guy (or guys), don't show a weapon or obvious intent to harm....but, they get too close for my comfort; and perhaps don't stop when I ask/tell them to. I can appreciate those who suggested having gun in hand or perhaps placing hand on/near it. However, it seems a little over the top to me to actually draw, let alone shoot someone who is not threatening/attacking. It's that gray area that caused me to ask advice in the original post. Again, I appreciate everyone's thoughts. Thanks
    After they sink a long blade into you, you'd wish you would have drawn.
    "An armed society is a polite society"

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Tell them no. I then move to create distance. If there are two of them I move so as to put one of them between me and the other. My hand goes discretely to my weapon but I don't draw at this point. At this point if they are not clearly moving to disengage I might then ask them if they know what time it is. Now the question is do either of them take their eyes off of me to look at a watch?

    Mtcraigco, You could ask if they have any naked pictures of their mothers, if they don't, offer to sell them some!
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    ""This is a situation where you do want you use verbal commands though. Cops are taught to say phrases like "Don't make me shoot you". This is something any armed citizen can employ if granted enough time. Inform them you have a problem with them approaching you. Let them know you perceive it as a threat. Ideally those things can be done verbally before making a weapon visible. If you draw a weapon and they continue to advance well from there, depending on the totality of the circumstances, I can see a shooting being justified.""

    Well what are your thoughts? What would you do? Would you let someone get in your space on a dark night if you tried to avoid them and then asked them to back off? 2 against one in an isolated area, dark of night, you have martial arts training, maybe they do as well.

    bosco

  12. #41
    Member Array ekillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boscobeans View Post
    ""This is a situation where you do want you use verbal commands though. Cops are taught to say phrases like "Don't make me shoot you". This is something any armed citizen can employ if granted enough time. Inform them you have a problem with them approaching you. Let them know you perceive it as a threat. Ideally those things can be done verbally before making a weapon visible. If you draw a weapon and they continue to advance well from there, depending on the totality of the circumstances, I can see a shooting being justified.""

    Well what are your thoughts? What would you do? Would you let someone get in your space on a dark night if you tried to avoid them and then asked them to back off? 2 against one in an isolated area, dark of night, you have martial arts training, maybe they do as well.

    bosco
    There are so many other factors that I would need to know to answer that conclusively. Remember by original post to you was in regard to you saying that if they approached within 20 feet you would fire, and you had no other qualifying factors (other than those introduced in the OP with it being late at night in a parking lot and whatnot.) It is likely that I would draw a weapon IF I had already made blatant evasive movements and I interpreted their response as a pursuit and they didn't respond to a verbal command to stop approaching me. With all of those present I could easily draw while they're around 20 feet away. If they see the gun and continue their approach and I have all these other factors present then I think it would be pretty easy to be able to articulate why I feared for my life and at that point pulling the trigger would be a viable option.
    Even if in some circumstances the outcome is the same (the trigger being pulled once they got within 20 feet) the difference between how it's thought out and articulated can mean the world to you once you've pulled the trigger.

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    POST #1 I would have my pistol in hand and would be happy to show it if they got within 20 feet of me after I had changed direction or crossed the street

    POST #2 I wouldn't risk it. I would draw if they got within 20 feet.

    Again, If they continued to close after presenting and a warning I would be ready to fire. This is just my opinion of how I would react and it is in no way meant for others to follow.

    bosco

  14. #43
    Member Array Zigmun's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how to phrase this, but every part of me would convey that I had absolutely no time nor fear for them.

    If they continued to close the distance, everything else becomes some combination of instinct and reading the moment.

    I suppose that with each inch, the chance of a positive outcome would drop like a stone.

  15. #44
    Member Array 390beretta's Avatar
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    A very wide variety of responses everyone. Thanks to all.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    This link is to a thread over on Total Protection Interactive about dealing with the "Interview" stage of a confrontation. SouthNarc (username) does a excellent job of discussing the pre-fight phase.

    you have to register to read the thread but it's worth it (seriously, it only takes a minute, go register).

    Total Protection Interactive
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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