Gunpoint

This is a discussion on Gunpoint within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by PaulJ Most self defense laws (not just in the US) recognize your right to come to the defense of others. Self defense ...

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Thread: Gunpoint

  1. #16
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    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulJ View Post
    Most self defense laws (not just in the US) recognize your right to come to the defense of others. Self defense has to be reasonable (deadly force only to be used if there is a deadly threat) and only if there is a present danger (e.g. the bad guy is holding up a gun and aiming it at the clerk).

    Typically, self defense no longer applies once the danger is over (bad guy on the run), or if there are other ways to defuse the situation (e.g. retreat). But this is where various state laws may give you more rights then this universal minimum self defense standard.
    As in many robbery vids and stories, the BG is still running out and turns to shoot. In this video the BG could easily have returned fire, even while leaving. Remember, he didn't get what he wanted and only decided to leave because he was being shot at...once engaged, I believe that the credit union teller did the correct thing. He prevented a dangerous situation from continuing, and once he took on that engagement, he followed through to completion.
    From the camera angle, the safety of the patrons was not in any more danger than when the dirtbag entered. Mr. Dirtbag didn't change his mind because women and children were present. Mr. Dirtbag could easily have decided not to leave any witnesses. As it turned out (and there are no guarantees) the dirtbag got exactly what he deserved and the teller deserves a medal...if not, at least a raise and a promotion...IMHO.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    The guy in the video now works at a gun store! From what I understand, the bg did not survive...

    To answer the OP's question.... Yes, you can shoot the bg robbing the store. That is the legal answer. In Texas, we are authorized to use deadly force when a felonious act is committed on us or a third party, ie. robbery, rape, kidnapping, being held against our will, etc. The key is the we DO NOT know what is going to happen. Legally, you can shoot the robber in the back as he's holding someone at gunpoint because that is a life threatening situation.

    Now, just because we can, does not mean we should. I am a firm believer that any citizen being threatened with a weapon, should meet that force with an overwhelming action of force. Thanks to Front Sight, I'd rather act than react.

    But, just because Texas law states that I can shoot someone fleeing my home with my property at night time (but not in the day time ), doesn't mean it's what I should do.

    I think many of us, including myself, have "hero" thoughts from time to time, and that's ok. It makes me very angry and sick that some crackhead or meth addict can walk in to my neighborhood, my convenience store, and just take what he wants at gunpoint. So, playing it out in my head, is it self-defense or revenge?

    I was car-jacked and held against my will for almost 45 minutes while they went ATM to ATM because one ATM was down and one only had $100. Had I not taken action, I probably would not be here today.

    Every situation is different. Most robberies end without violence, but from time to time someone, or everyone, gets shot.

    If you choose to get your permit, please spend every free moment asking questions, researching and understanding the law. And above all else, safety. This is a HUGE responsibility, not only to ourselves, but everyone around us. One mistake could end the life of another human being. Good luck!

    Joanthan

    P.S. Sorry for the rambling!
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; December 23rd, 2008 at 02:24 PM.

  4. #18
    Member Array FireAir7215's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    A good source for basic carry info is also Handgunlaw.us

    Is there any other website beside handgunlaw.us ?

    Thanks

  5. #19
    Member Array FireAir7215's Avatar
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    Hey Guys,

    Thank y'all so much for reply my question. It so much for me even us to learn something new. I just want to get to know all of those kind of texas handgun law. I have questions to ask instructor at the handgun class. Also ask some question here. Thanks again! Wish yall a happy holidays!

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I have a Texas Guns Laws PDF. I can't remember where I got it, so I'll upload it in a few and post a link for you.

    Jonathan

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    FireAir,

    Let me offer the simple answers to your questions...

    1. You may attempt to detain anybody* in the process of committing a felony. This is called citizen's arrest. (If you happen to be in North Carolina, make sure you wait for the police to come collect the scumbag, rather than moving him yourself. Then you are kidnapping---if you stay in place, though, it is a Citizen's Detention.)

    2. It is always lawful* in the United States to use lethal force in the defense of a third person who himself would be allowed by law to use lethal force in his own defense. That is, if Scumbag is a lethal threat to Little Old Lady, you can use lethal force against Scumbag in defense of Little Old Lady.

    Now, those are the simple answers. As the other responses have indicated, the problem is much bigger than that. Are you sure a felony is being committed? Are you sure the person you are defending is truly at risk of life and limb? Are you sure there isn't a tailgunner in the store waiting to take out Joe Hero? Is it worth the potential ruining of your life, either physically or legally, to get involved right here, right now?

    There are many, many issues involved that you would have to think through and decide for yourself ahead of time. And you seem to be starting down that road, else you wouldn't have asked the question.

    Welcome aboard!

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    * IANAL, but I have at least looked at these questions pretty thoroughly. You should, of course, do your own research, since I won't be showing up as an expert witness at any trial where you might find yourself as the guest of honor...
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Click here for the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws 100 page PDF

    Click here for the 2 page NRA / ILA Firearms Laws of Texas PDF

    Jonathan

  9. #23
    Member Array Texas Yankee's Avatar
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    This site is a great resource for Texans with or thinking about getting CHLs: TexasCHLforum.com • Index page

  10. #24
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    Check the DPS website, there is a newer version of the Concealed handgun laws, here's a link.

    Tx. Concealed Handgun Laws

    Chapter 9 covers use of force and starts on pg. 55.
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Welcome and Godspeed on your endeavors. These guys can teach you alot. Lots of wisdom here on this forum not to mention there all great folks.
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