Flashlight and Firearm: Blinding and Shooting - Page 2

Flashlight and Firearm: Blinding and Shooting

This is a discussion on Flashlight and Firearm: Blinding and Shooting within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Its all hypothetical until you find yourself in the scenario. It never happens like we think. I do agree that they could be deterred by ...

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Thread: Flashlight and Firearm: Blinding and Shooting

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Its all hypothetical until you find yourself in the scenario. It never happens like we think. I do agree that they could be deterred by the presence of a Gun but not sure 100 % I would. Flashlights can provide you that moment you need to get the drop.
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Blinding is a good tool to give you time to put a car between you and the person of unknown intent. I would also holler 'Stop, go away, leave me alone'. His fate is then in his hands.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    I noticed some "bad shooting" in some of the above statements. There was reference to the "bad guy" responding to the police that he was mearly... If I shoot at someone it is only mine and my loved ones statements that will be taken. The only thing taken from the "bad guy" will be the picture of his dead body.

    I am not trying to be macho or sound calused. I am only trying to make the point that if I see somone as an emminate threat to do me or somone else great bodily harm, rape or death.... then I will not warn or show them my serious stick... I will show them how fast a .45 travels at center of exposed mass. If I deem the person to be an emminate threat but still a threat, then come the warnings...they then have 2 choices... a) proceed to level 2 and I issue chlorine in the genepool of bad guys or b) they re-evaluate (wisely) and turn the other way at which point I hope I have given the LEO enough info to locate them.
    Pray for our nations leaders!

  4. #19
    Member Array H8SPVMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I haven't quite completely hashed out following scenario and while I know there are a LOT of variables that make any kind of "decision" go right out the window in the time of need but I thought it would be interesting to at least get some opinions and read a little discussion about how you think it should ideally play out.

    Alright.. here it goes.

    You are walking to your car in a dark parking lot and using your flashlight to guide the way. You notice a suspicious character in your path and hit him with all your tactical lumens.

    He makes a threatening gesture or says something that alerts you enough to draw your firearm but because of the blinding effect of your light he has not seen the gesture. In his mind you are still just a defenseless victim.

    While I do not advocate drawing a firearm as a means to deter a crime and I do STRONGLY believe that one should only draw a firearm if they are intent on using it in defense of their life, I am also aware that firearms DO have a deterrent effect.

    Showing the firearm could theoretically keep you from having to use said firearm.

    So... do you make a point of showing you mean business or leave him (and the gun) "in the dark."

    Should you both survive the encounter could there be legal ramifications of blinding someone with a light and not allowing them to see you are armed before using your firearm?

    "Sir, I was just walking to my car and the crazy blinds me and then just starts shooting me?"


    What say the DC masses?
    I think you just became the aggressor by blinding someone you think might harm you. Without his intent to do harm, he's just "Joe Bag O' Donuts" walking to his car, or, crossing through the parking lot to the coffee shop. I don' t believe a persons mere presence is reason to go into fight or flight mode.

    Condition Orange - suddenly change direction - even stop. Watch for their reaction, then decide what to do next with maybe a verbal challenge, like "Hi there, the cops are looking for....in this parking lot," what's the reaction?

    Try to never use your flashlite on people like that without cause, it could be considered an assault and make people aggressive towards you. Like what if that was an undercover policeman patroling the lot? Worse yet, another CWP holder? Boy here it could turn south in a skinny minute.

    You've just blinded another CWP holder, now he feels he's beening robbed as you pull your firearm...

    The Anti's will be all over that news story.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    I think people put too much stock in their wonder light being able to blind people. There is a difference between causing the involuntary closing of the eye (what you are likely to achieve with a light) and the light having the same effect as you walking into a bright room from the dark. The later is more likely to take more than a few seconds to adjust too.

    If I am being a approached I would not hesitate to shine the light is someone's face for two reasons, one is that especially if done with a verbal command to stay back and the BG fails to do so it begins to create a case for depraved indifference. A reasonable person would leave you alone after that. The second thing is that it has been my experience that a good blast of light to the eyes is likely to result in the person involuntarily bringing there hands at least a little bit towards their face. This allows you to see what is in their hands and respond appropriately.

  6. #21
    Member Array philman's Avatar
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    I would not "not use the light" just on the theory that him seeing my firearm being more of a deterrent. If you hit him with your light, when he opens his eyes back up, you should no longer be there, at least no longer close to there. That should be a practices skill, flash your light and instantly move away from were your light was just at.

    Regardless if someone where to later say you were the aggressor with a simple flashlight, an illogical move on someones part would be to become aggressive in response to it. In other words, if I shine a light in someones eyes, right or wrong, and they come at me with deadly force, then I am perfectly warranted in taking self defense measures. While the flashlight may have been inappropriate, it would not warrant the other person attacking you, also, it would not be logical on there part, the logical defensive move is to move away and protect yourself. If they do the opposite then they have made a potentially deadly mistake.
    I carry a gun for the same reason I own a smoke detector...I never, ever, plan on needing them...but if I do need them, and have them in a box...I won't be able to get to them for use fast enough.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    I think people put too much stock in their wonder light being able to blind people. There is a difference between causing the involuntary closing of the eye (what you are likely to achieve with a light) and the light having the same effect as you walking into a bright room from the dark. The later is more likely to take more than a few seconds to adjust too.

    If I am being a approached I would not hesitate to shine the light is someone's face for two reasons, one is that especially if done with a verbal command to stay back and the BG fails to do so it begins to create a case for depraved indifference. A reasonable person would leave you alone after that. The second thing is that it has been my experience that a good blast of light to the eyes is likely to result in the person involuntarily bringing there hands at least a little bit towards their face. This allows you to see what is in their hands and respond appropriately.

    I like the advice. I am also assuming that if you are going to "flash" someone that you have better reason than some one else is walking near you.
    Pray for our nations leaders!

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    It would be a reaction to them walking at me.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    You just can't go around shining flashlights in somebodys face/ If it happen to be a off duty LEO you may be going for a ride /Be carefull & safe H/D

  10. #25
    Member Array flaboatbum's Avatar
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    I agree with Michael (Post #5). If your SA radar is on full power, you just might mis-interupt an innocent passer-by as a BG in your (maybe) over active imagination. Shinning an annoying light in his eyes could escalate the situation rather than keeping it calm. Now, if the suspected BG were babbling and waving around say a knife, big stick etc....a whole different story.

    I think I would change direction, step up my pace and then re-analyze. If they match your move....different story. Could even be pepper spray time. Lima presents an interesting scenario as always.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    You just can't go around shining flashlights in somebodys face/ If it happen to be a off duty LEO you may be going for a ride /Be carefull & safe H/D

    And what exactly would the charge be for shining a flashlight in someones face and telling them to stay back be? Someone walking by you and someone walking towards you are two very different things.

  12. #27
    Member Array H8SPVMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    And what exactly would the charge be for shining a flashlight in someones face and telling them to stay back be? Someone walking by you and someone walking towards you are two very different things.
    Just a wildeyed guess on my part, I'd say, Simple Assault to begin with.
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  13. #28
    Member Array philman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8SPVMT View Post
    Just a wildeyed guess on my part, I'd say, Simple Assault to begin with.
    Some case law examples on that would be interesting to read. If not, I doubt it.

    We aren't talking about someone just walking around shining lights in peoples faces, in the example post, shining a light at the person would be a perfectly logical and legal move, in my non-lawyer opinion.

    In addition, I put no weigh in an "off-duty LEO" If he does something stupid, he is just a person, off-duty LEO should not hold any bearing on your behavior.
    I carry a gun for the same reason I own a smoke detector...I never, ever, plan on needing them...but if I do need them, and have them in a box...I won't be able to get to them for use fast enough.

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by limatunes
    You are walking to your car in a dark parking lot and using your flashlight to guide the way. You notice a suspicious character in your path and hit him with all your tactical lumens.

    He makes a threatening gesture or says something that alerts you enough to draw your firearm but because of the blinding effect of your light he has not seen the gesture. In his mind you are still just a defenseless victim.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I made no threatening gestures untill you blinded me with that damn light! I though I was being mugged. Hell yes I said something, wouldn't you? I only wanted to get to my car and go home. Then some fool comes out of nowhere and blinds me.
    Why did you attack me?

    Michael
    Quote Originally Posted by flaboatbum View Post
    I agree with Michael (Post #5).

    I have to agree as well. As your story unfolds, you could be deemed as the instigator because you made the first move hitting him with the lumens. If that happened to me, I would definitely say something to you because my SA would be alerted. You may be better off to change direction first and monitor the so called BG's movements. If he advances, follows or begins to harrass you, then you could hit him with the light, warn him of his advancement and that you have a gun. Now the ball is definitely in his court and you have warned him. His next move will direct you in yours.

    One thing to keep in mind Lima. What if the person you hit with the lumens happened to be a permitted carrier and when you hit him with the light he may have seen through it and saw your gun? I think your BG needed to make the first move to warrant the action of your scenario. Of course, my .02
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

  15. #30
    Member Array PocketRocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcher View Post
    I have to agree as well. As your story unfolds, you could be deemed as the instigator because you made the first move hitting him with the lumens. If that happened to me, I would definitely say something to you because my SA would be alerted. You may be better off to change direction first and monitor the so called BG's movements. If he advances, follows or begins to harrass you, then you could hit him with the light, warn him of his advancement and that you have a gun. Now the ball is definitely in his court and you have warned him. His next move will direct you in yours.

    One thing to keep in mind Lima. What if the person you hit with the lumens happened to be a permitted carrier and when you hit him with the light he may have seen through it and saw your gun? I think your BG needed to make the first move to warrant the action of your scenario. Of course, my .02
    Best advise I've read so far.
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