Who has the advantage?

Who has the advantage?

This is a discussion on Who has the advantage? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is one that has racked my mind for a while now. I figured I'd throw this out there for y'all to chew on for ...

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Thread: Who has the advantage?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Who has the advantage?

    This is one that has racked my mind for a while now. I figured I'd throw this out there for y'all to chew on for a bit.

    Lets say you're walking to your car in a parking lot, and a masked man pops out from behind a large vehicle you couldn't see around, gun drawn and pointed at you. You are carrying a gun in an OWB holster under a jacket.

    Do you have the element of surprise when he demands your wallet and reach for your gun instead?

    Or does he have the advantage having the gun aimed at you already?

    Discuss...


  2. #2
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    Or does he have the advantage having the gun aimed at you already?
    Yep.

    Are you fast enough with the draw? Can you sweep,draw and fire while a gun is held on you?

    When you react, you are already behind.
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  3. #3
    Member Array MandM's Avatar
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    In my opinion he has the advantage by having his gun aimed at you already. But you have options. You can move laterally for cover. Move quickly and draw. Create a diversion by dropping or tossing your wallet. Or a variety of other tactics. But if he has his gun on you already. He has the advantage.
    You can't fix stupid. Ron White

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Yep.

    Are you fast enough with the draw? Can you sweep,draw and fire while a gun is held on you?

    When you react, you are already behind.
    This is what has been racking my mind tho.... he'd think you were getting your wallet, thus giving you a second or two more to get the upper advantage.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    He got the advantage. He was ready and prepared to rob you. Best thing you can do (IMHO) is to get the advantage back by throwing your wallet on the ground and draw/shoot when he reaches for it.

    Alternative, if you feel you are up to it, maybe you can dive for cover and draw / shoot at the same time. But that move would require some training.
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Action always beats reaction. He does.

    Not to say that you don't have valid tactical options......but you're not in a good place at that point.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

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  7. #7
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Since the badguy already has his gun out, forcing you to react to him, he has the advantage.

    Remember, "action beats reaction." He gets to choose the time and the place. You only get to choose how you will react, and none of the choices are without significant risk.

    Biker

  8. #8
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    as others have said....he has the advantage, he has taken action and you would be reacting....you would be behind the curve

    IF you decide to take action...it had better be something you've practiced, and I mean practiced!

    IMO your first move would need to be just that...move, duck for cover/make tracks behind another vehicle while drawing, after that is up to the layout of things, etc; if no cover or vehicle in the right spot for you then your options get limited quickly...comply or try the deception move with the wallet, tossing at him while moving laterally and drawing but the first option is much better

    no matter what...you will not be able to stand there and fast draw to win this, the best you can hope for is a tie=both of you being shot
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  9. #9
    Member Array Openroad's Avatar
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    First of all, the robber clearly has the advantage in this situation. If he's intently watching you and has good reactions (both generous assumptions based on the substance abuse common with criminals) he'll see your draw and probably get first shot off. On the action/reaction topic, we as citizens acting in SD will (almost) always be in reaction mode. To preemptively engage in action without the BG having already threatened us with lethal force is murder... which is why the BGs usually have the advantage.

    That said I don't see the throw-the-wallet strategy working very often since criminals generally like to maintain control and flaunt their power over victims. "I said gimme your money a*****e, pick up the wallet!" If this is just a random hoodlum actually looking for a few hundred bucks maybe he'll go for the wallet giving you the distraction you need to draw.
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    As law abiding citizens that have taken the burden of self protection upon ourselves, we are at a disadvantage 98% of the time in the event of an attempted victimization.

    It is the Situational Awareness that keeps us from harms way.

    The laws are structured to make the law abiding citizen targets. We can not take any aggressive proactive measures and stay within the letter of the law.

    We can do certain things that skirt the gray areas to defuse a potential problem such as exposing our CC (which borders on brandishing) to send a clear message to someone(s) that we are not to be trifled with, they chose poorly, thus the perceived threat has been diverted. However that now leaves us with the possibility that the someone(s) will call the Police to report a person with a gun with some embellished story to make them sound like the victim.

    Self Defense is a reaction, response, second step, etc. Disadvantage. We are just better equipped to deal with the situation than the grass eaters.
    Sticks

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    See also Sheep

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    BG definitely has the advantage here. Until you throw your wallet at him and it hits the ground. Once he goes for the wallet you'll have a spit second to do what needs to be done.

  12. #12
    Member Array texasccw's Avatar
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    I think all situations have their different options. No 2 will be exactly alike. Safety is always a priority. I have been accustomed to carrying a "dummy wallet" with very little valuable cards in it such as gift cards loose dollars etc... you never know when you might need it.

  13. #13
    Member Array Spike32's Avatar
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    Interesting. When I am about to enter an area where there is cover and concealment for BG's (parking lot), and I'm wearing a jacket or coat, I will usually slip my G33 out of its holster and into my pocket, with hand on weapon. In the situation you described I would shoot the BG thru my coat pocket while reaching for my wallet on my weak side.
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  14. #14
    Member Array keboostman's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I am going to be in the minority here, but I think you just give him your wallet and let him go unless you have near 100% confidence that you can maneuver, draw and fire before the BG can get you. Having that level of confidence demands that you have practiced much more than most of us ever will.

    Once he has the drop on you, any sudden move is very likely to get you shot especially if the BG is nervous and jerky as he likely will be. Although you may be shot anyway, it's much less likely if you comply.

  15. #15
    Member Array Geds's Avatar
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    depends on when it happens.

    Right now, he has the advantage and that's that.

    But after jan 20th, bad guys will no longer use real guns or actually put bullets in them if they DO use real guns, or they won't be able to pull the trigger and hurt you or your family.

    In fact, we don't need to carry any defensive weapons or even consider these types of scenarios anymore.

    Turn in your guns and ammo, we're gonna be saved.

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